"Basic" Set-up Expectations
 

Hoping to get some insight from those of you with more experience.

I recently took my guitar to a local luthier for a set-up. It's my first and only all-solid acoustic. I purchased the guitar new in late 2017, and it had not previously had any work done on it. The luthier is highly respected locally, and has received several positive reviews on this forum (part of why I chose him). I talked to him about lowering the action, and he also wanted to correct the intonation of the high e (which would involve re-shaping the saddle). I said that sounded fine. He seemed knowledgeable and competent.

I can provide more details if needed, but the short version is that he lowered the saddle considerably (it doesn't look like there's room to go lower at the treble end), and ramped the bridge (presumably to improve the break angle over the lowered saddle). I didn't notice the bridge ramps until I had paid and returned home (a mistake, I know).

So, two questions: 1) is ramping the bridge something you would consider part of a basic set-up? 2) if/when I replace with a taller saddle, will the ramping cause issues?

Maybe I'm being over-protective and this is no big deal. And I probably would have said "OK" if he had asked me whether to do it. It just seems like a more invasive repair to be included in a basic set up on a fairly new guitar.

When the saddle needs to be lowered enough that "it doesn't look like there's room to go lower at the treble end," it follows that the ramps would require adjustment.

As an aside, it seems strange that a relatively new guitar would need such a drastic reduction in the saddle. Such a need is often the symptom that the guitar is ready for a neck reset.

I guess my biggest question is whether the action you've got now is the action you wanted. If it is, I don't see much to complain about.

That was my biggest concern, too. So, more details: the factory saddle was compensated, and in order to intonate the high e, he essentially "reversed" that compensation to move the point of contact closer to the soundhole. Which I think explains why he lowered it so drastically.

Thanks for your comments--I am happy with the result. My biggest worry was that he had made an unnecessary modification that wouldn't be correctable in the future.

Typically the saddle is raised or lowered to better line up with the existing neck angle, not for compensation. It does sound like the neck angle might be a bit low, given that it is a fairly new guitar. But sometimes a guitar might settle in more than average as it "learns to be a guitar."

The ramping should have not have a negative effect if you do eventually need to reset the neck, and thus put in a taller saddle due to the change in neck angle. The taller saddle will just increase the break angle.

That it now plays the way that you want it to is the crux of the biscuit.

Thanks for that feedback! Feeling much better about this.

I think the drastic lowering was really only a by-product of trying to move the point of string contact from bridge-side to neck-side (in essence shortening that string). IOW, he couldn't make the neck-side taller, so he had to make the bridge-side lower. I probably should have just asked for a newly made saddle to begin with. But it's sounding and feeling great. I've emailed to ask if he saw issues with the neck angle just to make sure, but I think it's something he would have told me about when I picked it up.

You say ''drastic lowering'', just what is the string height now? What was it before?

I'll post when I have the instrument handy. But "drastic" was my impression of how much saddle was removed, not necessarily how much the action changed.

I’m sorry to hear of any new guitar that has the saddle lowered, and in this case also a modification of the bridge?

For a new guitar set up my tech does one thing only - nut slot adjustment with occasional tweak of the truss rod, and for a extremely minimal charge.

It might be just me but if I was to make a change like that, they should make a new saddle so that I would have the original to go back to if there was a problem.

Did he solve your intonation issue?

Ramping or slotting a bridge is not part of a basic setup. I would be concerned that a more serious problem exists.

I charge considerably more then a basic set up to ramp the string slots. But rest assured becasue if you need to have the saddle that low then ramping is a good idea and it is not going to ruing the bridge or anything. In fact many of the finest hand made guitars in the world have ramped saddle as part of their design. So if anything it sounds to me as though your local guy has gone above and beyond.

This sounds so much like a Martin to me.:( What is the guitar in question? When you have a chance please post some photos of the work.

I would never do any such intrusive work on one of my customers guitars without notifying them first. If the saddle needs to be lowered that much, and string slots cut to get good break angle, the guitar needs a neck reset (providing this Luthier knows what he's doing in the first place). This sounds to me like a botched job, and if so I would demand my money back, and have this Luthier pay to have the bridge replaced by a knowledgeable Luthier. If it were under warranty, I would have the bridge replaced by the maker, and then a neck reset, and the Luthier pick up the tab for the bridge replacement, unless the warranty is now void.

Intonating doesn't lower the saddle any. It just moves the string point of contact forward or backward, not up or down.

I agree. I'd say he should have called to get your OK on that. Although, as redir says....

Yeah, it increases the break angle, which is flattened when the saddle is lowered. More break angle means more vibe to the soundboard.

What's the bottom line? Are you happy with the action? Are you happy with the tone? In the end, that's what matters. If he had told you that he needed to reset the neck (for $400-ish) or he could ramp the bridge slots, what would you have done? I understand the point, though, and would not expect that kind of work on a standard set up without being specifically asked.

Fortunately for me, my guy will sit with me, and together we decide what work (if any) needs to be done. I'm never surprised (except happily).

Removing wood from the bridge without first consulting the owner is totally unacceptable. In my opinion, any change that is semi-permanent (like removing material that can’t be replaced) should be first approved by the owner. If the saddle is that low, the proper solution would have been a neck reset. I would be VERY upset if someone removed material from the bridge on any of my guitars. That is not standard practice and simply shouldn’t be done without consultation.

I’m not exactly sure what I’d do in that situation. I suppose it would depend on the value of the instrument. “Making it right” would require replacement of the bridge, which isn’t something that should be taken lightly. Ultimately, the neck should be reset. I have found that very, very few repair guys meet my standards of detail and excellence. This kind of stuff is why.