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-   -   Electric through a Mixer/PA? (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=504624)

Irish Pennant 03-24-2018 08:14 AM

Electric through a Mixer/PA?
 
I'd like to get some input on how to properly run an electric guitar through a mixer. Where research is leading me right is to use an amp modeling pedal and a DI that's designed for running pedals. On one end is something like Line 6 Firehawk FX multi effect pedal -> Palmer PDI 09 Passive DI -> Mixer. On the other end is something like Zoom G1Xon -> BEHRINGER ULTRA-DI DI100 -> Mixer.

My mixer is an Allen and Heath 10FX and an Allen and Heath 60-14FX. Guitar is an Epiphone Les Paul Traditional Pro.

I don't need pro gear, this is for home use and for use at an open mic I host. I primarily use my electric guitar to play melodies over looped acoustic guitar phrases.

pieterh 03-24-2018 11:09 AM

Electric through a Mixer/PA?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Irish Pennant (Post 5679222)
I'd like to get some input on how to properly run an electric guitar through a mixer. Where research is leading me right is to use an amp modeling pedal and a DI that's designed for running pedals. On one end is something like Line 6 Firehawk FX multi effect pedal -> Palmer PDI 09 Passive DI -> Mixer. On the other end is something like Zoom G1Xon -> BEHRINGER ULTRA-DI DI100 -> Mixer.

My mixer is an Allen and Heath 10FX and an Allen and Heath 60-14FX. Guitar is an Epiphone Les Paul Traditional Pro.

I don't need pro gear, this is for home use and for use at an open mic I host. I primarily use my electric guitar to play melodies over looped acoustic guitar phrases.



Although I usually play through an amp and then mic it up through the PA there have been occasions where a stage amp is not really ideal (church gigs for example). I bought the Radial JDX Direct Drive DI which has excellent amp-speaker simulations and a balanced DI for going direct to a live mixer or a recording interface (plus tuner and regular tele-line outputs). I have used it both live and for recording - we did a version of Show Must Go On where I played all the bass and guitar parts and it sounded great. Although I have a good dedicated DI as well, the JDX is much better suited to guitar and provides the right load on your pickup and pedal combinations. A live mixer’s inputs aren’t normally designed to load down the guitar’s signal in the same way as an amp’s input so pedals and a regular DI will give a decent signal but not necessarily the right sound.

(Edited for clarity)

Irish Pennant 03-25-2018 02:37 PM

So I bought a Zoom G1Xon pedal and a Behringer Ultra-DI. They came in this morning. I'm not too pleased with the DI, I took it off the pedal board and replaced it with a Para Acoustic DI. First impressions of the Zoom is that I like it. It's doing just what I wanted it to do and more. I put together a pedal board with the Zoom -> Tube screamer -> Ditto Looper -> PADI-> to the mixer. I've never played to drum backing tracks, the Zoom pedal has some really cool and good ones. It has one patch which is a bass guitar. Right now I have a song playing on my looper that consist of a rock drum backing track, a clean rhythm, a bass line and a lead with the tube screamer engaged. This is fun.

I just ordered a Radial JDX Direct-Drive - Active Guitar Amp Direct Box. When it comes in I'll replace the PADI with it.

pieterh 03-25-2018 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irish Pennant (Post 5680774)
So I bought a Zoom G1Xon pedal and a Behringer Ultra-DI. They came in this morning. I'm not too pleased with the DI, I took it off the pedal board and replaced it with a Para Acoustic DI. First impressions of the Zoom is that I like it. It's doing just what I wanted it to do and more. I put together a pedal board with the Zoom -> Tube screamer -> Ditto Looper -> PADI-> to the mixer. I've never played to drum backing tracks, the Zoom pedal has some really cool and good ones. It has one patch which is a bass guitar. Right now I have a song playing on my looper that consist of a rock drum backing track, a clean rhythm, a bass line and a lead with the tube screamer engaged. This is fun.



I just ordered a Radial JDX Direct-Drive - Active Guitar Amp Direct Box. When it comes in I'll replace the PADI with it.



If I understood your needs properly I think you will be very pleased with the JDX. I wouldn’t be without mine - I don’t use it very often but when the conditions demand then it is great to have it to hand! Let us know what you think.

PTony 03-25-2018 07:25 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by pieterh (Post 5680813)
If I understood your needs properly I think you will be very pleased with the JDX. I wouldn’t be without mine - I don’t use it very often but when the conditions demand then it is great to have it to hand! Let us know what you think.

+1 Great alternative to heavy amps and excess stage noise.

Wouldn’t be without mine either.

M Sarad 03-26-2018 01:35 PM

I plug my electric straight in . Sounds great.

PTony 03-26-2018 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M Sarad (Post 5681834)
I plug my electric straight in . Sounds great.

Your electric guitar straight into the board sounds “great”? A direct connect to a PA is not an ideal option for an electric guitar without some sort of amp modeler, a DI, or running an amps line out to the board. At least in my experience.

Nymuso 03-26-2018 03:30 PM

I've done this when I played in a large party band and it worked fine. Back then I used a Line 6 POD, but a G1xon would work just as well. I took the guitar back in the monitors and didn't carry an amp. I loved it.

bluesfreek 03-26-2018 09:37 PM

I have plugged my Roland Micro Cube direct into a PA mixer using it as the modeler. It worked great! :up:

M Sarad 03-27-2018 02:45 AM

Call me weird, but my Brondel Strat straight into the pa sounds great. Just a Planet Waves chord connects them.

Dr. Martin 03-28-2018 05:02 AM

[QUOTE=Irish Pennant;5680774]So I bought a Zoom G1Xon pedal and a Behringer Ultra-DI. They came in this morning. I'm not too pleased with the DI, I took it off the pedal board and replaced it with a Para Acoustic DI. First impressions of the Zoom is that I like it. It's doing just what I wanted it to do and more.

Hi Irish, I wonder have you tried the looper built-in to the Zoom? I know it's not a Ditto, but is it usable at all? Thanks for any suggestions.

Irish Pennant 03-29-2018 05:44 PM

[QUOTE=Dr. Martin;5683447]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Irish Pennant (Post 5680774)
So I bought a Zoom G1Xon pedal and a Behringer Ultra-DI. They came in this morning. I'm not too pleased with the DI, I took it off the pedal board and replaced it with a Para Acoustic DI. First impressions of the Zoom is that I like it. It's doing just what I wanted it to do and more.

Hi Irish, I wonder have you tried the looper built-in to the Zoom? I know it's not a Ditto, but is it usable at all? Thanks for any suggestions.

I gave the looper a try, it works but for me it's too short of a record time. I also don't care for the way this board is set up for accessing the loop and rhythm functions. They should have added another plug-in for an auxiliary pedal. There are youtube vids that show how to modify this unit for that purpose.

I received my Radial JDX Direct Drive, it's hot, as in clipping hot. I'll see if I can tame it, otherwise I'll send it back.

PTony 03-29-2018 06:16 PM

[QUOTE=Irish Pennant;5685388]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Martin (Post 5683447)

I received my Radial JDX Direct Drive, it's hot, as in clipping hot. I'll see if I can tame it, otherwise I'll send it back.

Can you expand on this? The Radial Direct drive shouldn’t be the issue. Maybe the board gain on that channel is set to hot?

This model JDX doesn't need an output knob because it's designed to have the volume set from your interface/ mixing board.

Irish Pennant 03-29-2018 07:56 PM

[QUOTE=PTony;5685410]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Irish Pennant (Post 5685388)

Can you expand on this? The Radial Direct drive shouldn’t be the issue. Maybe the board gain on that channel is set to hot?

This model JDX doesn't need an output knob because it's designed to have the volume set from your interface/ mixing board.

I'm still trying to trace down where the hot is coming from. Here's where I'm at. I plug the guitar directly into the mixer and set the gain to where the meter is hardly registering the signal. I then run the guitar through the Radial Direct into the same channel on the mixer, with no adjustments, the gain is clipping. I unplug the channel and then connect a vocal mic to the channel, the signal has no clipping. For powering the RD I'm using a Voodoo Labs Pedal Power ISO 5, 9v-100mA socket, I've tried two other sources for powering the RD. I think I've done all I can do to eliminate all potential areas for signal contamination. All that's left is the RD is sending a hot signal. I'm open to try something else before sending it back.

pieterh 03-30-2018 02:59 AM

If you are plugging the guitar direct into one of the instrument channel Tele-inputs (3 & 4?) then you will be setting the gain for a line level instrument.

You should be connecting the JDX to a mic input and setting the level accordingly. It is after all a sophisticated line box. If you are using the line out from the JDX instead of the xlr out you aren’t using it properly! Apologies if you know this already but it wasn’t clear from your last post.

I use my JDX with a recording interface (Focusrite Pro40) and live sound mixers (Mackie DL1608, Allen Heath digital etc) and don’t get clipping. Use the xlr out and adjust gain structure at the receiving end accordingly.

Test it with a powered speaker or amp too, this time using the Tele out - if you still get clipping I’d say it was a faulty unit (unlikely but I guess it happens). If you don’t get clipping then it is a gain structure issue.


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