Let's Talk Mirrorless
 

Hey photographers,

Wanted to share the new toy, a Fujifilm X-T1. I've been reading here and other places about the joys of mirrorless, and started lusting after some of the offerings from Fujifilm. I originally bought an X-100F, wanting a very small camera which contrasted markedly from my full-frame Canon 6D. Wanted something very portable that I could use for street photography, so I pulled the trigger. My first evening of shooting was at a work event and at night, and the low light performance was a fairly shocking drop-off from what I was used to. I also was intrigued by the idea of a hybrid optical/electronic viewfinder to wean me off the optical I'm used to. Well let me say I immediately regretted the purchase. Everyone kept asking me about the camera (Is that a Leica?) making it rather the opposite of the unobtrusive object I'd hoped it would be (maybe that's an artifact of working in tech), and I have to say I just didn't like the feel of the rangefinder at all. I hated it. I didn't give it enough time to really understand the camera, had some buyer's remorse, and sent it back in 3 days.

Undeterred to some extent, I kept on reading up on other Fujifilm cameras, as the idea of the manual dials, the incredibly sharp and less expensive lenses, and the compact size still had my attention. So I ran across some YouTube video of a guy recommending the X-T1 as a great stills camera. I hadn't considered it previously, assuming the 16 megapixel sensor and older autofocus would be dealbreakers, but getting a near pro-level camera for a bit over $300 on the used market ($332) was compelling, in that I could sell it for what I paid for it, and I wasn't in for thousands. I paired it with a used 23mm f2 (35mm equivalent) and a used 56mm f1.2 (85mm equivalent), and have had a very different experience than I did with the X-100F. I immediately bonded with the ergonomics and the manual dials and I loved the small size. The sharpness of the lenses is incredible in comparison to my Canon. Opening even the 16MB files in post-processing shows incredible detail, even wide open. Really impressed. Autofocus isn't on par with the Canon in low light, but the continuous focus is much better. Auto focus in good light is fast with both, but the Fujifilm has really cool focus enhancement features like magnification and focus peaking which give a tremendous confidence in focus, and the bright, large EVF shows me my exposure before I trip the shutter, which is a huge advantage in many respects.

Still getting used to it, but I really like it. Not ready to ditch full-frame at any point, as there are just some real advantages in low light and with DOF which I'm not yet ready to lose. I'm considering investing more in the platform, probably glass at first and maybe an X-T3 before I go on vacation this summer, but not sure. Here's the camera, shot with the Canon 6D, 40mm f2.8 pancake:

https://i.imgur.com/UU9ivMM.jpg?1

Let's hear about your mirrorless!

I have a full frame Sony A7iii that is awesome. I also have an older APSC Sony NEX F3. That's pretty good too considering it's age and still takes great pics too.

I have a Sony a6500, preceded by an a6000, and a NEX5N before that. I'm sold on the format, obviously :)

If I was starting from scratch, I'd look very seriously at the Fuji mirrorless line.

I went on this journey two months ago and settled on the Lumix gx8, with the smaller 4 thirds versus the APS sensor. I love its EVF, so sharp and a big advantage to a mirrorless.

Coming from a full frame, but from many years ago (the 70s), the digital options on these cameras is amazing, sometimes it is just too much.

Have fun with your new camera.

Thanks, definitely enjoying it so far. Wondering how much of it's a honeymoon with a new toy and how much it's really going to be the way I shoot moving forward. We'll see!

no offense, but thats a really bad image shot with a 6d- what happened?

Maybe you can be more specific about what's bad, and I'm happy to answer. Depth of field is quite shallow, maybe that's the issue for you?

For Christmas, I bought my wife a Fujifilm X-100F with both add-on lenses and a couple of extra batteries. It all fits nicely in a camera bag that is a perfect size and shape to hold everything for the camera, including the documentation and charger. Photography was her hobby when we had our house years ago and she could have her darkroom in the basement. At that time, she had a Nikon camera and some Nikon lenses.

Then, we moved into our condo and lost her darkroom (we both gave up long time hobbies to move into the condo - mine was amateur radio). She had no interest in taking pictures and having somebody else develop them. I got her a Nikon D-70, which could make use of her lenses. But then she developed health issues, making it difficult to get around, much less carry a camera the size of the D-70, not to mention all the stuff that goes with it.

Everything I read about the X-100F praised the camera highly. It is small and light, and seems "old school" enough for her to be comfortable with. All the goodies and camera fit in the relatively small bag, making it easy enough for her to handle. I do hope she has a better experience with it than the OP did because I don't know what we would replace it with, considering her unique needs. So far, she seems to be doing fine. Since she is no longer interested in entering photo contests, I don't know if this camera would take "winning" shots. With her original Nikon and darkroom, she won the contests she did enter.

Tony

its looks like focus is off, and noisy- like shot at 1600 iso or something, im not trying to be funny here, but the 6d is a very capable camera

Yeah, DOF was super shallow, and probably did do it at high ISO. Didn't think anyone here would notice. :D

Glad your wife is enjoying it! I didn't give the camera a fair shake, just reacted quickly. I think I liked the idea of it, but didn't love the lack of lens flexibility.

I noticed, but didn’t think it was worthy of comment, given the nature of the thread. It’s a picture of a camera and a lens, not a contest entry.

Funny enough, that was one of the things we felt was a positive in favor of the camera - avoid the endless array of lenses. From what I have seen, camera enthusiasts can develop a real serious case of GAS, just as we can with guitar goodies. There is certainly a good case for having a collection of lenses, but hopefully my wife will be able to get creative with what is available for the X-100F.

Tony

Yep, that's what I was thinking as well, but I didn't feel that way when I got the camera. Lots of folks love it, and make beautiful images with it. I just really like different looks with different lenses, and I wanted to try that on this platform.

Great focal length for travel, street, kids, etc.

I chose a Mirrorless for my underwater camera
Mainly because the camera and housing were far less expensive that just the housing for an SLR
I got what was actually a blow out sale ,on an Olympus Pen E-PM1 and matching underwater housing .

Here are a couple shots

https://i.imgur.com/PNggxg1.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/fs7Sb3B.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/DYQfAPK.jpg

Aaahh, shark! That's too close.

The downsides of mirrorless...
 

The new mirrorless cameras have a big following. In photography, new things always get the attention. There's no gear from 1959, such as a Strat or Les Paul, that's still prized and used daily by working pros. Still, there are reasons not to buy mirrorless quite yet:

-- the viewfinder. Electronic view finders get better with every generation, but they still have limited ability to represent bright highlights and dark shadows. When I demo'ed a Fuji XT-1 on a sunny street at noon, those bright and dark details were washed out. And that was in Seattle- I work around Denver, where the brightness range is at least two stops greater. That's the beauty of the X100's hybrid VF: flick a switch and you can see the scene in true colors, which is what I prefer. Each generation of EVFs gets a little bit better, but most aren't there yet.

-- battery life. In a mirrorless camera, the battery is working all the time, reading the sensor and creating images on the EVF and rear screen. Expect your batteries to last about a third as long as with a DSLR.

I have a Fuji for casual snapshots and adapted lenses. It works well, but the shooting experience is far better, IMHO, with my DSLR Pentax. The DSLR offers me stablization with every lens I use, plus a big, realistic, real-time, no-battery-drain viewfinder.

The DSLR body is larger, but I compensate by using smaller lenses with smaller glass and apertures. Often when mirrorless coverts gripe about the size of their old DSLR (usually a Canon), they're really talking about the size and weight of f2.8 zooms they attached to them. Those lenses don't shrink much in mirrorless form. The good news is that with useable ISOs up to 1000 and beyond, those fast lenses aren't needed anymore.

It is interesting how at no time during either of the two " No cage" shark dives I went on, did I feel at all threatened . Admittedly they were Reef Sharks and known to not be particularly aggressive towards humans. (unless you are bleeding or thrashing on the surface)

I posted this over in the Photo's tread also. This female Reef Aprox. 9 -10 ft swam slowly up to about 3 feet and stopped dead still for about 3-5 seconds

https://i.imgur.com/QAVmMCo.jpg


couple more

This one is about 2 ft away.
https://i.imgur.com/KprVAzy.jpg


This one came right over the top of me and actually bumped the extended arm light on my camera, which sits about 10-12 inches above my head, I think with its tail, just the instant after I snapped this shot

https://i.imgur.com/RxdUl3m.jpg

You're talking about mirrorless from a few years ago. They used to have those cons, but not any more.

I have had a DSLR since 2005 and still have a Nikon D750 full frame DSLR. But, I got a Sony A7iii last summer and those cons you listed are things of the past. Battery life and the EVF are superb.

I haven't used the latest Fuji, but the camera you are referring to is two generations old already.

Good post, and thanks for all the thoughts!

You're quite right about the EVF at least as it applies to my now 5-year-old X-T1, the image in the viewfinder is far more contrasty that the actual capture, despite the sales pitch that you see the actual exposure in the EVF. Is the X-T3 that much better? I hear it is, but not sure it eliminates what you're talking about. It is nice however to be able to see the exposure and DOF immediately and be able to correct it by hand with a dial on top of the camera. It's very fast and intuitive. And WRT to optical viewfinders, well the captures from my 6D don't look like what I see in that viewfinder either, so there's translation either way. But I can see why folks like opticals better, it does feel so much more natural and organic. When I picked up a Sony A7III it was just so...electronic, and so much happening in the EVF with focus highlighting and everything else they throw at you. I had a strong initial negative reaction to the experience of that camera.

Battery life is bad on the Fuji X series, but is reputed to be far better on the Sony A series. They just use a much bigger battery. But yes, the EVF and the LCD are much more of a power suck. But batteries are cheap, light, and easy to swap out.

I would disagree with caveats on the gripe about size. My 6D is small for a full-frame mirrorless, and it feels comically large after using the X-T1 for a few weeks. While it's true that full-frame mirrorless have just as large and heavy of lenses as a DSLR (or very close), what's nice for me about the Fuji system is that the ASP-C lenses are much smaller, and much cheaper than full-frame lenses for mirrorless or DSLR cameras. And the sharpness of these much more modern lenses is incredible compared to the very nice L glass I have for my Canon. My Fujinon 56mm 1.2 is dramatically sharper than any L glass I've ever had. The R lenses from Canon are said to be on this level, but I haven't seen an EF mount lens that can touch it. I was genuinely surprised by this, difference, it's not subtle. You certainly don't get the same shallowness in your DOF with APS-C, but with fast primes I get as much as I'd ever want. The overall size experience with a mirrorless APS-C is quite different than a full-frame DSLR. For me I want fast lenses as I shoot in the city at night a lot, and I love the shallow DOF for portraits, etc.

Good discussion.

The EVF in the Sony has several modes and most of the things that were on when you used it can be turned off.

Good to know. Yeah, they're all really customizable. It was jarring coming from an older DSLR, but after using the Fuji for a few weeks I think I may not have quite the same reaction, as I'm getting used to the focus tracking over hundreds of points. That said, I definitely prefer what Fuji is doing with the analog controls for ISO, shutter, and aperture. Lots of menus in those Sonys.

Great images though, no question.

Sony quite rightly gets dinged for a labyrinthine menu system. As I'm now on my third iteration, I've become quite proficient with it, and have my a6500 set up so that I can get to everything I need pretty quickly.

I love the 'old school' knobs on the Fuji, with the ability to see settings at a glance, but, realistically, I've got what I need. I shoot aperture priority the vast majority of the time, and have one control wheel to set the aperture, and the other for exposure comp.

Yep, stick with your great camera for sure! I just was so intrigued by Fujifilm's camera that the X-T1 seemed like a great way to get into a super high-quality system without much cost. I'm feeling very likely to stick with the system.

My old Sony Mavica still works ( thou the discs are a PITA )
my wife wants me to discard it -but I still think its a cool camera , even thou it doesnt get used nay more !
Have been thinking of a new Digital -I find this post interesting -

what is a good cheap camera these days ? not fond of my cell phone

Define ‘cheap’ :)

Try anything two generations old. Digital cameras depreciate like rocks thrown into a pond. Sensor performance and image quality took a big jump about five years ago, and the advances since then strain human perception to see. Camera review sites sites resort to enlarging five percent of the frame, underexposed, to reveal digital grain and quality differences. You really do pay to be a perfectionist in this game.

A contrarian suggestion
 

I do like Fuji's X-cameras. I own one, and use it mostly as a convenient one-pound carry along. But when the purpose is making photographs, I'm happier with a DSLR and optical viewfinder.

Let me put in a word for Pentax. Yes, they're still in business, though few are sold in the US. Every camera body they make is weather-sealed, along with many current lenses. The K-5 and K-3 models, and the full frame K-1, are built like tanks. The menus and controls are very ergonomic. I get wonderful results with older manual and autofocus Pentax lenses, all stabilized by the camera body's sensor. Some of these first-gen lenses cost me less than $75, used.

One choice, as I see is, is to invest in the Fuji model, buying excellent but pricey lenses to fit a camera body that will soon be replaced by a new one with less of the weakness of EVIL cameras (Electronic Viewfinder, Interchangable Lenses). And there will always be a better one coming, with a VF that makes the old ones look lame. It's a fast-developing technology; some are always drawn to that. If I was a camera manufacturer, that's the business model that leads to profits.

Or to buy a DSLR that's a fully developed product at the height of its technology, and collect new and old and "obsolete" lenses that I can use for many years. It works for me, and I'm certainly cheap.

Or you could go mirrorless, and use legacy lenses with an adapter.

It's great to have choices.

Shot with my Sony a6500 and a Minolta MD Rokkor 135/3.5.

i consider DP reviews, and Imaging resource a good place to start, i didnt get on the DSLR bandwagon when they took off in the market, i stayed with film for awhile until i got 350XT- currently i use a canon T1i (bought used) and does all i need it to do, when i do upgrade ill probably stay with a mirrored canon, reason being is i have some nice lenses, but in your case, you have more of an option to go mirror or mirror less, dont be afraid of the used market, you get to see and try what it is, places like adorama and bh photo also have used and refurbs, most of the time, you take a digital image and its good to go, simple edits are available, but any image i want to show, print, etc- i always process it thru photoshop