Marc Beneteau 28" Baritone (Carpathian / Black Walnut)
 

Hey AGF,

Thought I'd share another project brewing with Marc to be finished by late spring/early summer this year. I've been having a great time with the baked Sitka/Indian OM he finished for me recently and had this one lined up for soon after which will make for a great companion and songwriting guitar.

The idea of this build is be a bit of a hybrid between my first guitar from Marc (a Carpathian/Ebony Model M with 4.25" deep sides) and a previous long scale SJ build we did in Italian/Walnut. I had the walnut ordered specifically for this build and am REALLY excited to see how it pops after finish. The Carpathian had a really memorable response and Adirondack-like behavior and the walnut gives pureness and balance without too much of a midrange bump. My thought is the guitar will be less bass-heavy and less airy than your average Baritone with a deep body, but with a 28" scale and the 16" wide bout it will still be warm and clear.

It seems my favorite Baritones have had either Walnut or Maple b/s, which I think might fill in the fundamental tone of the instrument and focus the sound. They've interestingly been redwood-topped as well, but knowing me I thought it would be better to pick spruce for versatility and clarity when played with power. Marc mentioned his matched LMI Carpathian sets are stiffer that his other Euro tops, but not quite as stiff as his quartered Alaskan Sitka. I remembered the tone of my Model M well and how it behaved like a cross between Adirondack and Italian and thought this would be a good choice for versatility on the Baritone. Maybe some overtones will be present, but if not that is also fine by me.

I've yet to play any rosewood baritones, so wish I could comment on if they are a better fit for my style or not, but in general I am a huge walnut fan so this set visually sealed the deal for me. I also had a helpful conversion with Ken Buseman from here and he owns a Sitka/Walnut baritone from Marc that sounded great and he said walnut seems to be a good choice for the lower register. Look forward to finding out!

Here's the spec sheet I sent Marc. Hope you all enjoy the thread!

Soundboard: Carpathian
-Back and Sides: Fiddleback Walnut
-Neck: Walnut
-Nut Width: 1.81"
-Bridge string spacing: 2.36"
-Scale Length: 28"
-Body depth at endpin: 4.25"
-Cutaway: Yes, Venetian
-Body bindings/bevel: Ebony
-Fingerboard: Maple-Bound Ebony
-Soundboard inner purflings: walnut/maple/ebony
-Heel cap: Ebony
-Backstrip: Ebony
-Arm Bevel: Ryan style
-Soundport: Yes, no cover
-Bridge: Pinless
-Headstock front and back veneers: Ebony with walnut triangle inlay, "B" logo for front
-Rosette: 8mm wide figured Walnut w/ maple/ebony/walnut purflings

Misc:
-neck depth at 1st fret: 0.85", slightly thicker carve than the normal 1 13/16" neck profile to avoid handcramps
-Ebony or gold strap pin for neck heel (dealer choice)
-Side MOP dots up to 21st fret
-Evo Gold fretwire medium jumbo
-Gold Gotoh 510s 21:1 ratio if possible with Ebonoid buttons
-clear pickguard
-Nut string spacing 1 9/16"
-drilled endpin hole for future pickup jack, centered, no endpin necessary


https://i.imgur.com/fuuy6YM.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Yfcnhj3.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/9kmnMRB.jpg

Beautiful Dustin. Congrats!

Gorgeous wood. Should be really interesting to see what the tone/timbre is like with Walnut as the back wood.

Look forward to seeing your thread develop, and potentially, listing to a recording of your guitar!

all the best,

Stuart

Oooohhhh….
 

This will be a fun thread!

Hope to hear you work it out ASAP

Cheers
Paul

Sweet baritone brewing there!

How does the longer scale affect the pieces that you choose to play on it? Do the longer reaches make some things really difficult or unplayable?

I'm excited to follow this, Dustin! I already have a couple questions:

1. Why no geometric rosette this time?
2. You mention wanting a slightly thicker neck to avoid hand cramps. Is that because Marc's 1-13/16" necks are not as deep as their 1-25/32" counterparts?In the recent past you've had guitars built with nut widths of 1-25/32" and the extra 16th here makes sense given the strings will be a bit thicker, but I'm wondering how this change informs your neck profile. When you have that extra 16" of width do you prefer a different shape or different thickness?

Thanks Dennis :)

The plan is to have this guitar and the OM both with audio samples on Episode 3 of "My Favorite Luthiers", so yes! Sound clips for sure.

Thanks amigo!

I suspect that some tunes might not be playable, as the scale will just be too long! Wider frets as a result. Maybe possible to capo 2 or 4, but then at that rate...maybe not much point in playing it on the baritone. The thing I'm most excited for it definitely singing in new keys.

I decided against the geometric rosette just to keep the price down and because I liked the idea of either the walnut burl or fiddleback leftover being used for it :)

Definitely felt a perceptible difference in the MJ Fanfret guitar Marc made me with a 1 13/16" nut width compared to the SJ and Model M I previously owned with 1 25/32", it was flatter feeling and as a result just couldn't come to grips with it. I've said it so many times but that 0.03" inch difference is very perceptible if the neck is made shallower or flatter. 1 25/32" wide with 0.84-88 deep at the 1st fret seems to be the sweet spot for my hand.

I really adore the tone, looks and setups on just about every Petros I have played but I literally cannot play them for more than 15 mins before my left hand starts to hurt. Same with Olson and Olson-style builders like Applegate and Charis who generally go for the slim, shallow C neck. Always exceptions, of course!

This is just my experience, I played an Astrand with a 1 13/16" nut and a fuller neck and it was heaven, same with many others at Cedar Rock in the past. The less I have to stress/cramp my left thumb joint for big stretches, the better!

So it's more that, in your experience, Marc adjusts his wider necks to be a little shallower. Makes sense to me. I've come to nearly the same sweet spot myself: 1-13/16" wide with about 22mm deep at the first fret. That's right in the middle of the range you give. Thanks for taking the time to answer!

Another very cool project. I've never played a baritone before, but I reckon that's a nice choice of woods to keep it all tight and defined.

Well, today wasn't such a great day, initially. Marc mentioned he has worked with many highly figured woods with his sidebender but this set just wasn't fit for the task.

https://i.imgur.com/3uB1T0f.jpg

We were, however, able to quickly decide on the "choice B" set from back when I ordered my SJ several years ago. Marc stated this wood is 25 years old, quarter-sawn and has a fantastic tap tone to confirm that. I'm more than happy to have straight-grained wood when figured is no longer an option, so no complaints from this guy. Another small, silver lining is that with this set's sides being longer, he can now do the originally requested Florentine cutaway.

https://i.imgur.com/MUi0sDh.jpg

Marc also found a set of lighter walnut burl which would match the color of this set of black walnut better as well, so it wouldn't appear as dark as the Claro which was used for the initial headstock overlay and rosette below. He said he'd be able to reuse these veneers and the top for a build later so it wasn't an issue at all to re-do these with the burl.

https://i.imgur.com/Ssp0cpO.jpg

Original rosette, which admittedly I wasn't that crazy about but figured it'd be fine:
https://i.imgur.com/MwLD3ty.jpg

Original head veneer, which looks amazing with the ebony grain matching the triangle, but the Claro would likely be much too dark compared to the burl and new, straight-grained set.
https://i.imgur.com/BbsHG5T.jpg

Will have some new photos next week, Marc said. I'm actually not bummed at all, anymore. One thing went wrong but now 3 other things -the cutaway, burl wood, and much more stable back and sides set - are now on the table.

That new burl wood for the rosette looks amazing!

That was a stunning set of fiddleback Claro, Dustin. It's always sad when a good-looking set of wood breaks during bending. My understanding is that, although less figured, Black Walnut is generally considered to be the best sounding of all the Walnuts. I don't know if that's true, but it's the impression I have from years on the AGF. Maybe because of Tim McKnight's special Black Walnut? Anyway, I'm glad you have a more stable set and I'm loving that new burl for the rosette.

Agreed, nice little surprise.

I've consistently heard the same that quartered black walnut tends to yield the most consistent results that aren't as midrangey as the mahogany spectrum. I've also heard Peruvian walnut behaves similarly. Wouldn't down any walnut though, in the right hands. Long as it doesnt crack :D

You know what they say ... things happen for a reason. The new woods look fantabulous!

Yes, this will be fantastic. I recently changed strings on my Beneteau baritone and place a set of Medium gauge Phos/Broz stings. Since I have the 27" scale, thought I'd give it a go... very pleased with the sound. I'm gonna play it like this for a while with some drop tunings.