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-   -   Sonic comparisons b/t the "New" D-18, D-18V and D-18GE (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=315047)

$ongWriter 10-26-2013 03:57 PM

wrong..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kydave (Post 3669813)
D-18 = Thin
D-18V = Less Thin
D-18GE = Least Thin (of the three)
D-18 Authentic = Just right (sounds more like a good D-28)

:D

Sorry man..but you're just wrong..the new D-18 is great...the day I traded for mine I ab'd it with a D-18 GE and there was not $1500 difference in them..plus the new D-18 has a great neck..not the clunky thing...my D-18 is anything but thin....just saying...and yea..i'll fight someone over this!!...lol!!!

$ongWriter 10-26-2013 04:05 PM

sorry..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Yates (Post 3669885)
Dave said, "...more like…". I take that to mean thicker and richer than a typical modern mahogany guitar, but not exactly like a rosewood guitar. Not that I have much experience Authentics or anything like that. :D

To answer the OP's question, I can't tell much difference between the new D-18 and the discontinued D-18V. It really comes down to the individual guitar and preference for neck shape.

The straight braced D-18 is going to be considerably brighter and often thinner. They tend to sound better as they get older, but still not my first choice.

The D-18GE will be bolder than either of those, thicker mids and a better bottom end.

The Authentic is another animal entirely, IMO.

Wait....the "new" D-18 is not straight braced..thus the better sound!!!

Guest 1928 10-26-2013 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by $ongWriter (Post 3671507)
Wait....the "new" D-18 is not straight braced..thus the better sound!!!

You need to go back and look at my post again. I noted that the choice between the D-18V and the new D-18 comes down to preference in neck shape. (They share the same bracing.)

I also noted that the straight braced D-18 is much brighter.

MICHAEL MYERS 10-26-2013 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Yates (Post 3671527)
You need to go back and look at my post again. I noted that the choice between the D-18V and the new D-18 comes down to preference in neck shape. (They share the same bracing.)

I also noted that the straight braced D-18 is much brighter.

I would say that the new D-18 is brighter. The straight braced D-18 is quite a mellow laid back guitar in my experience. The new one has that bluegrass style brightness along with the bigger bass. More of a scooped tone. But I guess we do all hear things differently.

Guest 1928 10-26-2013 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MICHAEL MYERS (Post 3671655)
I would say that the new D-18 is brighter. The straight braced D-18 is quite a mellow laid back guitar in my experience. The new one has that bluegrass style brightness along with the bigger bass. More of a scooped tone. But I guess we do all hear things differently.

I'd guess that we're hearing the same thing, but describing it differently. People often say Sitka is warmer and red spruce is brighter. I hear Sitka as crunchy and red spruce as smooth. Very tough to put tone into words - accurately.

Legolas1971 10-26-2013 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kydave (Post 3671214)
I use that, as I have heard it used over the decades, as the qualities historically attributed to the reasons some people (not me) generalize and say "the D-28 is full and good for rhythm, while the D-18 is good for lead because of its cut (or clarity or punch)".

I am of the opinion that a good D-28 basically has the qualities of a good D-18, yet expands on those qualities. Not that it's a trade-off.

Projection, I think, would be a useful alternate description, although as we all know - describing sound in a way that is meaningful to all people in all ways is a lot like herding cats.

IMO, the people who say a D-18 is better for lead than a D-28 simply have not played enough of the right D-28's. Listen to the audio below.

:D

Cherokee Shuffle by 3 D-28 (or D-28 type) guitars

:)

I respect your love for D-28's; I really do. However, IMO you may be over stating what they do well. I have played many D-28's over 25 years
of playing and have never really loved them. I feel the same way about HD-28's. To my ears the rosewoods are too muddy. This may be due to the overtones but whatever the reason I prefer the less overtone heavy hog guitars.

Don't get me wrong I love Martin's and I can appreciate rosewood guitars but D28's aren't better than D18's; they're just different.

kydave 10-27-2013 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legolas1971 (Post 3671771)
I respect your love for D-28's; I really do. However, IMO you may be over stating what they do well. I have played many D-28's over 25 years
of playing and have never really loved them. I feel the same way about HD-28's. To my ears the rosewoods are too muddy. This may be due to the overtones but whatever the reason I prefer the less overtone heavy hog guitars.

Don't get me wrong I love Martin's and I can appreciate rosewood guitars but D28's aren't better than D18's; they're just different.

If you find those guitars in that video of Cherokee Shuffle "muddy" then there's nothing I can say... Different strokes and definitely different definitions of "muddy".

:)

billybillly 10-27-2013 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kydave (Post 3671884)
If you find those guitars in that video of Cherokee Shuffle "muddy" then there's nothing I can say... Different strokes and definitely different definitions of "muddy".

:)

D28's and HD28's will never be as clear sounding as the D18 series, that's the point. It's just the nature of rosewood vs mahogany.

Legolas1971 10-27-2013 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billybillly (Post 3671900)
D28's and HD28's will never be as clear sounding as the D18 series, that's the point. It's just the nature of rosewood vs mahogany.

Exactly.......And again; neither one is better than the other just different.

kydave 10-27-2013 10:14 AM

I'm not asking for judgment, more like semantics.

Do you consider the sound of those guitars in Cherokee Shuffle "muddy" sounding, was all I was asking.

I guess at a certain point "clear" can be considered "thin" by some; "rich" can be considered "muddy" by some. Again... semantics.

Personally, I find those examples to be extremely clear AND extremely rich.

:)

Guest 429 10-27-2013 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MICHAEL MYERS (Post 3671655)
I would say that the new D-18 is brighter. The straight braced D-18 is quite a mellow laid back guitar in my experience. The new one has that bluegrass style brightness along with the bigger bass. More of a scooped tone. But I guess we do all hear things differently.

You're hearing what I'm hearing whenever I've played those guitars.

Guest 1928 10-27-2013 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kydave (Post 3672218)
...Do you consider the sound of those guitars in Cherokee Shuffle "muddy" sounding, was all I was asking...

No. :)

Even after all the discussion on these forums, we have no common language to describe tone. That is part of the problem.

warfrat73 10-27-2013 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kydave (Post 3671214)
IMO, the people who say a D-18 is better for lead than a D-28 simply have not played enough of the right D-28's. Listen to the audio below.

I think this is a big part of the debate here... the question isn't are some D-28s as well, if not better, suited to lead as some D-18s... certainly they are, just ask Tony Rice. I think the question is more about the average than the exceptions. It's true that some of us simply have not played "the right D-28s," but from what I've seen most of the heavy hitters that do play D-28s for most of their lead work play models/vintages far out of my (and many people's) price range (Tony obviously fits this trend, as does Bryan Sutton). In terms of fairly mainstream, post '69, fairly affordable models, you're right perhaps I haven't played enough of the "right" ones. But on average I've found, among these models, that D-18s better fit my sense of a what a lead bluegrass guitar should sound like. Doesn't mean that the sound in my head is the right one, it's just the sound in my head.

As for that recording, I wouldn't say any of the guitars sounded muddy, but neither did they sound as bright or crisp or focused as I'd prefer for lead bluegrass tone... though they all sounded quite good.

Here's another "Cherokee Shuffle" (recording not quite so good, and maybe not actually "Cherokee Shuffle," but that's what it says). In my opinion Kenny Smith (who appears to be playing some iteration of a Collings D-1) and Sutton (playing the banjo killer) have better lead tone than Grier does on what I believe is his '46 D-28... if that's his D-18 then forget I said anything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvbc3frTbEo

6L6 10-27-2013 12:02 PM

If you can afford a 1937 D-18A, the rest of the comparisons are interesting, but not in the same league at all.

bjewell 10-30-2013 03:24 PM

I've owned my '05 D-18A since May of 2006. Bought it in Tokyo - paid full pop -- and have never looked back. I think when KYDave talks about sounding like a 28 he might be refering to their power (Hi Dave!).

I've played the snot out of this guitar -- frets are getting dow, action is gettin gup and the color has darkened despite the stain on the top. It reminds me a bit of the '41 D-18 I bought years ago from RC Snoddy but the Authentic has more depth and as Tony Rice said of his old '34, almost unlimited power.

It is fussy about strings; it likes the cheapest Martin medium PBs by far, less so D'Addarios - -they seem to thunky at least on my particular guitar.

Guitars being what they are, there are a lot of variables. Find a good one and keep it. Trade around for others but find one keeper and grow old with it...


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