Rainsong P12 vs Emerald X7-OS
 

Has anyone played the P12 side by side with the X7?

Much as I love my Larrivee Parlor I am getting sick and tired of refilling the humidifers every week.

The P12 is just about the same size as the Larrivee but with a slightly longer scale, the X7 is shorter in the body, but has the same scale length.

Probably leaning towards the Emerald since I'm a sucker for an offset soundhole, plus the strong US dollar makes the Emerald a lot more affordable than the Rainsong these days.

The only CF guitars I have ever actually played are my Rainsong Shorty and WS3000. Nobody in AZ seems to carry CF guitars of any make.

If I were buying another CF and considering a RainSong, Ted at LA Guitar Sales would be where I'd be buying. Last time I was in the Sam Ash store in Glendale, AZ, they did have RainSongs in stock, including the Parlor.

Not sure how they (RainSong) did it, but the P12 sounds very close to the Shorty... and I do like the sound and feel of the Shorty.

Good luck with the search.

Ditto what Captain Jim said. Last time I was in the Sam Ash store closest to Sun City, they had several Rainsongs, including two parlors (one black, one green). That was last September, but they have had Rainsongs on hand each time I've gone in over the last five years. Worth at least a call.....

Edit: Now that I'm on a computer, a dealer locator search showed that Sam Ash store to be in Glendale, at the corner of West Cactus and 43rd. It appears to be their only store in AZ.

One would think AZ would be a Hotspot for graphite guitars

Yeah, I'm not sure how they have managed to stay open, but they are still there. All the other AZ stores closed years ago. Have to find an excuse to drive to that end of town.

CF guitars plus 5% AZ humidity = awesome. Even my WS3000 stays in tune, and 12-strings are notorious for "spend half your time tuning, the other half playing out of tune"

You would sure think so. When I first considered a CF guitar, I went into a Guitar Center in Arizona, and asked about "a RainSong carbon fiber guitar."

I am not making this up: the kid there said, "A what? Carbon what?" I explained it to him; he went to the computer to see if "any other stores in the Phoenix area had one of these." Then, he asked me, "How do you spell 'RainSong'?"

When I have taken solid wood guitars to AZ, the case humidifiers go through a LOT of water. My RainSong Shorty has gone from the humidity of the Tropical Tip of Texas to Phoenix; back to Texas, up to the San Juan Islands in the Pacific Northwest, and back. Several times now. Traveling by RV and/or boat. The RainSong seems real happy with that. ;)

The strong $ is a great boost right now, bought a Canadian hand built curly maple and curly walnut pistol case for what amounted to a 30% discount given the $ right now.

It might come down to what's most important to you.
Of course it'd be best to try both, but that's difficult.

x7 positives (in my opinion/experience)
• The x7 is smaller, thinner, a bit more portable/travel ready.
• I think it has a slight edge in playability, though 24" is a darn short scale length...though longer than many travel guitars. I'd still call the x7 a travel guitar in scale and size.
• Stainless steel frets are a plus, nice to know it's as low-maintenance as you can get.
• The gig bag is durable and light. Fits better than the Parlor case, and is lighter.
• The build feels a bit more solid than the Rainsong (which is built lighter, and the top and sides flex with pretty light touch)...though I don't have real durability concerns with the Rainsong, just noting how they feel different. I do appreciate the one-piece design, especially for a durable travel guitar.
• Forearm bevel adds comfort, Emerald's design and sculpting work is very impressive.

x7 possible cons
• The x7 has a non-traditional tone...immediate, open, hard. Not warm. (I might attribute that to the large soundhole, the smaller, radiused, and relatively-thicker top, which seems about as thick as a wood top, but braceles.).
• Non-traditional looks...the Parlor blends in a bit more, looks more like a capital-G guitar.
• I did feel like I needed a Neck-Up (personal taste) with the x7, as I'm tall and have to lean over it. The Parlor sits nicer on my lap.

Parlor positives
• Tone. Excellent, warm, articulate tone. Best tone I've heard from a CF guitar this size...probably partly thanks to the deep body (and top design).
• It makes a great travel guitar, but isn't spec'd as small/short as a travel guitar.
• The body is deeper than many full-sized guitars, and that delivers depth, bass, and richness that most guitars this size/shape don't have. The claim, "sounds bigger than it's size," is often made about CF guitars, but that's usually debatable/subjective. Not here.
• It's lightly, thinly built (including what's effectively a relief-routed double top), and has the resonance and responsiveness to show for it.

Parlor possible cons
• Too big for a travel guitar? I don't think so, but you might be looking for something smaller.
• Factory electronics are not elegant. Mine had a ridiculous amount of extra, bundled-up wires inside. They rattled. Two of the wire retainers also detached, so more wire banging. The preamp housing and mount vibrated at many various frequencies, no matter whether I tightened screws. Awful.
• Standard frets means eventual fret replacement maintenance.
• The Parlor case's length is spec'd for the P14, so it's a bit longer than needed. Also, a heavy case for a light, intimate, travel ready, durable guitar? A nice fitting bag would be better.
• As I mentioned, the top and sides flex with a fairly light push...that's not a problem for me, and the light build is probably responsible for the great tone. But it's unusual, so it's worth noting. Also, I've noticed with mine (as others have noted on AGF) that the soundhole has a slight distortion noticeable in light/glare...part higher, part lower, like the top is flexed from the strings. Again, not a concern, but an oddity worth mentioning.
• The neck is full. I like it alright, adapted fine, but it's worth mentioning. It's full and you'll notice that.
• Factory set up was uncomfortably high, and higher than my RS dread. It needed some major saddle shaving and truss rod tweaking. Neck angle is good, though.

tommy, I have no skin in this particular game, but I just wanted to compliment you on an excellent comparative assessment.

Nicely done comparison, Tommy.
I've never played or held an Emerald of any variety, but hear good things about them around these parts. (The Chimaera double-neck is oddly appealing, either as a 6 / 12 combo or with two six string necks for different tunings).
I have played all of the Rainsong sizes over the years and found them all to be very nice guitars.

To my taste, the Chimaera is simply appealing. I have a 6/12 and I really like all the things two necks offers in a surprisingly ergonomic, easy to play package. There are better sounding guitars out there and the Chimaera holds its own in that regard, but there is no guitar as fun to play and try to master, especially when playing a given song while going between both necks.

I've played the Rainsong, and I own an Emerald X7-OS. I like them both, but I don't really consider them that comparable. If you don't mind the 2X price of the Rainsong, and the larger size, then you will be much happier with the tone of the P12 (though you might need to get a good setup first).

I agree with that assessment!

Me too.

Two different instruments. I would be more inclined to look at the P12 relative to an emerald X10 with whatever scale you prefer. The difference would be the wait time. And then there is also the OX,. And in the travel direction, the new Journey. Decisions, decisions.

You may not be lost, but I'll bet you are plenty bewildered.

The Rainsong is a more or less known quantity, since I have two already.

I'm thinking the Parlor isn't that much smaller than my Shorty, since the Shorty is fairly shallow in the body, even if it is otherwise the size of an OM.

I've always used my (Larrivee) Parlor as a throw in the car when you need a guitar, car camping, and play at the computer type of instrument. When I play out I usually take a bigger guitar, either the Shorty or my Larrivee OM-03R.

I think the big draw of the X7 is it's only a bit smaller than the Parlor (either one) and it's literally half the price right now.

Well if you already have a Shorty, then that changes things a bit and I would suggest the X7. The X7 is a great, fun little guitar, is perfect for couch and campfire use, and in my case is the guitar I reach for most often when I'm at my computer and learning something from a YouTube video. If I need better tone I use my CA GX (though lately it's feeling awful big to me).

I too used to own a Larrivee Parlor, in my case one of the original four prototypes made for a NAMM show. Nice guitar, but I sold it to fund my first CF purchase.

A second for the X7. Love mine.

As noted by others, these are two are very different guitars. The X7 is a travel guitar, while the Rainsong Parlor, while certainly way more travel friendly than the Shorty, it still has a standard scale, and it gives up little to nothing tonally. I took my RS Parlor to Alaska and it was a joy to travel with. When I need something smaller, I take my Blackbird Rider, which is by far the best "sub compact" travel guitar on the planet.

BTW, if the price of the RS Parlor is holding you back, know that Rainsong has a new Parlor in the works that they haven't announced yet, the P12S. This model borrows the finish found on the Smokey, and is priced $200 below the gloss models. Without electronics the MAP is $1549. The new finish will also be available on the Shorty with the same $200 savings. You heard it here first folks! ;) If that's still to high, you might want to also look at the Journey OF660? It's as travel friendly as a guitar can get, has a standard scale like the Rainsong, and comes equipped with their version of the K&K Mini. Price is $1100 now, but will go to $1200 starting next month.

Speaking the K&K, if you end up going with the X7 but decide you don't want the B Band, be sure to have them build the guitar so it can accept a K&K. The K&K is an excellent pickup for a travel guitar, but apparently the standard X7 will not accept it without modification.

Good luck!

Ted;

Will the new P12S have color options?

Will there be P12S nylon string guitars?

Would you predict changes in sound between the old and new Parlors?

Hi Evan,

No color options, but I see no reason why Rainsong couldn't build a nylon string version.

I don't expect any tonal differences, but I should have the first ones here in a week or so and I will definitely compare both the Parlor and Shorty Satin to their gloss counterparts, and will let you know.

Ted;

I look forward to your comparisons.

I'm sort of disappointed about the color. For ten years I was a volunteer firefighter in my area--I saw some neat Smokey colors. The smoky reds were beautiful. The blues were haunting, the greens were ethereal. I'm not sure what particular car or house part was on fire, but the fuel put off some awesome colors.

As you might guess, I really like color in CF guitars. I know that some people like the natural carbon look. But color adds to the beauty of carbon fiber, for example Alistair's integration of color and weave. I also like Rainsong's use of color. Carbon Fiber is a painter's dream as far as medium is concerned. It is so smooth it is almost voluptuous to paint.

My favorite use of color was tried by Voyage Instruments--a French company. I think their instruments can still be seen on line. They developed a complete line of guitars with some incredible colorations. They dropped out of the CF race before production.

But I digress. It's nice to see Rainsong continue refining the development of carbon fiber instruments. I look forward to seeing the new instruments.

A "Smokey" Parlor would be intriguing.

Ok, time for some input here.

I have played them both, not side by side though.

I felt the x7-OS more form fitting to the body. The P12 with a smaller upper bout, stay lower from chest level when seated. Differences in scale length is not dramatic. I like centre soundhole guitars which I think projection is louder as compared to offset soundhole. But will I take the P12 because of the traditionally positioned soundhole? Well, that depends on what I want to do with the guitar.

For a couch guitar, I think nothing beats the x7 at the price. For performance, I'll go for the Rainsong. If I'm in the market for either one, I will take the x7 first. I can always let go of it without making a loss if I lose interest with it. The Rainsong to me is more of a professional music tool, at a price that you seriously need to play hard to decide. The x7 falls into the hobbyist category, you won't feel the pain even if you couldn't sell it away. And I bet you will not want to sell it when you get one.

A word of caution for CF guitar purchase - please try to play as many guitars to compare, even if they are the same model. The thickness of the CF soundboard makes a huge difference in the sound. I have tried two P12 and one is louder and more open than the other. I have two Emerald T8, and they sound different too. Really.

JK;

I am really surprised at your observation regarding sound differences in same-model CF guitars. One of the common comments regarding CF instruments is that unlike wooden instruments they are consistent within a given model.

Me too, Jimmy. Not arguing here, but I've played a lot of Rainsongs over the years and they are remarkably consistent from one guitar to the next.

In fact when buying my WS-1000 years ago, we had the chance to simultaneously demo four different ones in a quiet room at Elderly Instruments. There was virtually no audible difference between all four. The choice came down to really subtle playability / feel perceptions, and one guitar was disqualified because there was a minor visual flaw in the CF weave in the cutaway. Any of the four would have been great guitars. We also had a similar experience with recent CA Cargo's. Subsequent test-play experiences have also been similar, even when comparing my 2001 WS to way more recent ones that friends have.

On the MacNichol forum, we had a member who was a pro making his living traveling and playing throughout Europe with his X7. I don't know if he is on the AGF forum or not. That he specifically chose the X7 for his work I think would indicate it is indeed a "professional music tool"--but at a price that a hobbyist can feel comfortable with. Best of both worlds.



From my perspective, the X7 is simply an incredible value that many people overlook. Pricing something higher doesn't make it necessarily or automatically "better".

The Rainsong Parlor is a nice guitar and so is the X7. It depends on the factors that are most important to you. For me, the two bevels, the size, the offset soundhole, the scale length, one piece body construction, integrated bridge and the tone--all appeal to me, and for the price, I'm thrilled with mine.

When you commented on the X7, "And I bet you will not want to sell it when you get one." I can say I totally agree. It's definitely a keeper for me.

Me three. especially Rainsong. I could see how some builders who apply resin by hand could end up with a bit more resin on one guitar than the other, resulting in a slightly different tone, but Rainsong uses Prepreg Carbon Fiber, which extremely consistent.

BTW, I misspoke on the price of the new Satin Parlor and Shorty, it's actually $1549 MAP without electronics, and $1699 with the Fishman Prefix Plus T.

BTW, some excellent guitar work on that video ac, course I get the feeling this guy could make a Hello Kitty guitar sound good. ;)

A satin parlor is a nice option, especially since I've always thought that some type of satin or Raw (as CA called it) finish is preferable on a rugged knockabout travel and campfire type of guitar, just to avoid showing dings and scratches in the fancy gloss finish. I chose the basic X7 that has a sort of painted back and sides for just that reason, rather than all over gloss. So props to Rainsong for their satin models.

I also think stainless frets are a good idea, but so far Rainsong doesn't seem to agree with that one.

This I agree. Maybe to make myself clearer, there should be consistency with tone if every CF guitar is crafted in a really low-tolerance manufacture environment, and the thickness of the board of the batch of production will be the same that will give us the same tone, the same level of projection.

My earlier comment is a result from my personal experience with these two parlour, as concurred by the store exec who faces them daily, and the many feedback from potential buyers who have tried them:

http://i66.tinypic.com/2cpqc2f.jpg

The red one is louder and open sounded. The black one is more compressed. I did not check the dates of production so please pardon me on that.

Hey Evan, I am equally surprised myself, when I brought home an earlier made Emerald T8, and compared side-by-side with a later produced one. And that's when I learnt to tap the soundboard at the lower bridge area to determine the resonance of acoustic guitars.