Interesting also I note he is capo'ed @ 3


I am a seat of the pants type when comes to vocals (no formal training )
I get the falsetto in this fun cover of Stayin' Alive.
So in this is it falsetto and head or is there body also ?

Noting they are both capo @ 1

As long as we've veered off on the capo discussion, over time I've found that I utilize the capo much more as I have gotten better at playing the guitar. It isn't a crutch, it has become a tool of the trade.

OP here. Been a really log time since I heard that tune, on a long lost Ry Cooder disc. What a gem. And Joey has got it down. Thanks for that.
David

OP here. LOVE it!
What a Martin was meant for....
David

So not that song but here is one in G no capo, a John Prine cover I posted over in the JP cover thread .

This is from a series of cover songs I have been doing I call "One shot One Take " which they literally are And is also a good lesson in what not to do when recording of playing live ,,,which is when backed off from with this mic (in cardioid mode). turning my head to glance at the fretting hand (a bad habit of mine) results in a significant trailing off presence. So do you think in this situation setting the mic for OMNI would be better ? Understanding learning to not rotate my head would be more desirable . Same thing with occasionally shifting the guitar

No way to know without trying it, I guess. But I don't really have a problem with the sound changing when you turn your head, wouldn't have noticed if you didn't bring it up. The mic's fairly far off, and those big LDC's are cardioid but not laser-beam directional. With something like a Neumann KSM105 or a Sennheiser e945 (both very popular, very directional live-performance mics), peek-sneaking can really wreck a recording, but I think this sounds absolutely fine. And the song and the key are a great fit for you.

About these types of voices and how to recognise them, warm up the voice by playing a scale on your guitar and humming the note, start low and slowly work higher, as you hum the note really focus on whereabouts in the body you are feeling the resonating note vibrate , at the lower end of your range you should feel the vibrations below the neck, as you hum higher notes then the vibrations should pass through the jaw nose and head, that's the lower voice and head voice, it's just about where you feel the vibrations. Falsetto is what men do when trying to sound like women..

Fantastic! I really enjoyed the performance. So how’d you learn to sing falsetto?

No no that is not me ( they could be my kids ) I was just using that as an example to ask about range . I sound like cats in sack when I try to falsetto :D
I am the gramps lookin' guy in the Angle from Montgomery video .... post #35

Hey thanks for info I will give it whirl

Perhaps what I wrote did not give quite an acurate idea, because it's possible to manipulate the voice and sing lower notes of a song in a head voice and higher notes in a chest voice by manipulating where the noise vibrates, probably best to play around this by trying to sing in someone else's style, so for a lower voice you might pretend to be Howling Wolf or Odetta then sing the same thing in the style of Shirley Temple without actually singing any higher and feel how the location of resonating vibrations change.

:up::up::up:

I've had good results from imitating my talkative cat and dog.

I first recognized head voice watching Neil Young singing. I heard the sound and saw the face expression and some how I knew this is what I'd been looking for. I had been killing myself try to sing too high in full voice.

Should have taken some lessons earlier on in life.

Sorry that should have been Shirley Temple not Williams, she was a Labour MP, not sure she ever sang anything.

Getting back to where we started, I think it is critical to know your range. And it's easy to discover. It befuddles me that so few people establish this and then they get surprised when they can't sing something (or, worse, don't know that they can't). For me there are 2 uppers and lowers to know. The first is how high or how low are you fully comfortable with? (Match single notes you play to what you can sing and you'll quickly discover your range.) The second is what are the limits?

When selecting the key to play in, I try to keep the highest and lowest notes of the song within my comfort range. Usually that works. But if the song goes higher or lower than what is comfortable but still stays within the possible, I will keep the song, assuming I like it enough. On a high note above my comfort level, I can still be reasonably good sounding if it is one that is punched, rather than held.

Neil Young is a tenor - his register is naturally high.
His comfortable top notes would be a strain, or simply impossible, for most men - unless we go into falsetto (counter tenor) which is a different sound altogether.

I think if you want to find your head voice pay attention to the late great Monty Python's Flying Circus! and sing 'We are the knights who say kneee'.

I think Neil Young is an example of an unusual but not unheard of male vocal type — a counterbaritone, if you will. He actually sings in his head voice quite a lot of the time, maybe more often than not. His break point is pretty low, though hard to pinpoint, because he has a fairly bright, robust head voice and a thin chest voice. But I would venture that he sings every single note of “After the Goldrush,” for instance, in head voice. Ditto “Don’t Let It Bring You Down”, though he may be descending to chest for “burning” and “around” on the chorus. For a good example of his chest voice, check out “Birds” from the same album.

Point being, he doesn’t really have an unusually high voice, he just spends a lot more time than most singers in his top register. In fact, people often wildly overestimate how high Young is going precisely because he actually has a moderately low voice, and is often operating near or right at the top of it. “Old Man” only goes up to A, a perfectly normal high note for tenors, but when Young sings it he sounds like Yma Sumac. (He sounds even more Himalayan on a mere G on “Don’t Let it Bring You Down.”)

Young probably had the second lowest vocal range in CSNY — Crosby was more of a natural tenor than he was, and Nash was certainly higher than either, a true tenor 1. Listen to Crosby sing that top A from “Old Man” on the Byrds’ “5D” and Jackson Browne’s “For Everyman” — it doesn’t sound nearly as high, because Crosby, a real tenor, is comfortable up there.

When I started singing vs only playing guitar I was more of a casual singer-i.e. singing a few a night with my band. Then I “graduated” to singing a handful of sons a set. I sought out songs and singers that could fit my style by recording myself and listening back—so I could pull it off ok. I never took any formal lessons, and rarely practiced. As a result I would often blow out my voice after a few songs, especially if the band was loud (and my voice isn’t very powerful anyway). In my early 60’s (I’m 66 now) I decided to “branch out” and work on more solo performance which meant improving my vocal game. I started taking voice lessons and more importantly practicing regularly. I have noticed a tremendous improvement in my stamina, as well as my range. As I work on new songs I record them in several keys and listen back to find which sounds best. I will often use my vocal coach (which I only work with occasionally) to get feedback on my songs. Interestingly, I always thought of myself as more of a bass/baritone (I sang bass in my high school choir), but since my high register has increased, I find that many of my songs sound better when I’m pushing them up to my upper limits. My coach tends to prefer that range for me as well, which she describes as “bright” in a good way. While I’m never going to have great power, my skills have really improved and continue to—this comes as a result of a lot of hard work. Those with a natural gift for singing in (like some of my friends) don’t work at it much (not fair), but I actually enjoy the work, especially when I can observe the benefits.

Good points - thanks for all that. You're obviously right about Nash, at least.

In "Birds", though, the melodic range is G to G either side of middle C. This is right in the middle of tenor range, and he sounds very comfortable there. Even if his voice does crack a little when he goes much higher, ​I don't quite see how you need to define him as anything other than tenor?
Most men would struggle to sing that comfortably up at that top G.

I.e., I appreciate your info (I'm no expert!) but all I'm really saying is that he sings a lot higher than most men are able to, and sounds comfortable when he does so. (As an untrained bass myself, I sound as comfortable as him when I sing his songs an octave lower!)

Odd I don't have any problem with Neil Young at all, but some other artists like Kerry Livgren Kansas in Dust in the Wind, I have to drop it a half a step. And The Summer of 69 Bryan Adams is also pushing it for me in the original key.

Over 30 years ago I was the lead singer in a garage band and could probably sing Dust in the Wind with no problem. You guys are making me think I should go back to some voice lessons to regain some of my range. I did take voice lessons years ago too.

Hmmmm - where to start? "Accomplish" seems like good place.

I play at playin guitar and I try to sing- so, I am accomplishing

How about- play the hand you were dealt, forget what their rules say, you know you win, when, you live life your own way

Recently I've tuned down 1/2 step and use a capo on the first fret for everything. (not in the above though that is an older video)-

I do what I'm comfortable with, and a funny thing happens on the way there- the more I do the more comfortable I get doing what I do- I listen to my videos and try to improve on what I hear- my videos I do with an iPhone7- nothing elaborate- I try to abide by the K.I.S.S. philosophy in all I do-

Use your natural strengths- do what you want the way you want.

I accept that I have a long way to go - I reconcile to myself that I've only been at this game (in earnest) for about 16 or 17 months- reconciliation- playin the hand you were dealt, forget what their rules say, you know you win, when, you live life your own way-

I might add: It Gets Easier - an epitome of the K.I.S.S philosophy

I love his version of When Clay Pigeons Cry.
Kidding aside really nice!

opps :( corrected I'll blame it on spell check. :D

Small quibble — the melody in “Birds” actually tops out at E above middle C, a note I think a majority of men (all tenors, and most baritones) can hit without strain. The high G is in the top harmony part, and is probably in falsetto whether it’s Young or one of the other singers credited on the album.

I had my tongue at least a few centimeters into my cheek when I called Young a “counterbaritone”. In choral terms, he’s probably a tenor 2 with a good head voice and a fairly low break. But he’s not really a high tenor, and lots of rock singers have a higher range than he does.

OK thanks.

I'm not sure I agree that a majority of men can hit that E without strain. My experience is limited, obviously, but when testing my male guitar students - to demonstrate principles of melodic range and key (not to teach them singing!) - pretty much all of them would strain to get as high as that E; some wouldn't make it at all. Even middle C was an effort for some of them. I mean, they could get it, but not comfortably at all. Bass-wise, they could all get down to A well enough, and most could get lower (though none below E). Naturally, these were all untrained voices, and only one or two would have claimed they could actually sing at all.
OK! :)