In search of Dave Rawlings's sound: Epi Archtop
 

Saw a 1941 Epiphone Olympic Acoustic Archtop offered on eBay for $850. I admit I know next to nothing about archtops, but would love to add one to my stable for that Dave Rawlings sound. But I also feel I should probably educate myself a bit more before jumping on an offer and regretting it later out of ignorance. It looks good on the photos and is advertised as free of major defects other than little dings and dents.

I wasn't sure if it's against forum rules to post the link here.

What do you think about this offer? Are those guitars easy/hard to find? Expensive?

What are the odds of "lemons?" Easy/hard/expensive to fix up if necessary?

Would you risk buying one unplayed online?

What alternatives are out there in terms of newer instruments that don't break the bank?

Any ideas and suggestions welcome. Thanks! :)

The one you're looking at is not what David plays. His is the older, smaller model, which is more than 2" less across the lower bout. Here's a link to read about the details of those vintage Epiphones:

http://home.provide.net/~cfh/epiphon2.html#olympic

The other one on ebay, with the BIN price of 2K? That is the smaller one.

HE

I had been looking for an Olympic for about a year and had given up on finding anything in the UK, although I did spot a few in the US now and then, often for $2,500 and up. But seek and ye shall find! I saw and bought this little beauty for £450 ($675) on UK ebay a few weeks ago.

It is a 1935 Olympic in good condition - the same year as David Rawlins' Olympic. It has no cracks and the neck is excellent. It has had a re-fret at some time, a new scratch plate, bridge and tailpiece, the logo has worn off (it has the label under the f hole) but is otherwise original, with what is probably the original cardboard case. :)

I met up with the seller, so it wasn't an unseen buy.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/thegreypicker/

It plays like a dream. DR talks about his guitar sounding even all over the fret board and I now know what he means. The action is really fast.

Does it have the Rawlins' sound? Well, it is much louder than you'd expect such a small guitar to be; sweet and zingy. Different to anything else I am aware of.

Of course, I don't get to play it much - my son has abandoned his Gibson ES335 and is monopolising the Olympic. At least I get to play the old Fylde Oberon he stole from me again!

They are out there if you look and if you happen on a good one, it will be a gem. I wouldn't part with my money for an old guitar without having it in my hands first. Issues would be cracks, warped neck (no truss rod), seized tuners and worn finish. These were student guitars but amazingly well made.:)

Here's the exact model you're pining for: http://www.gbase.com/gear/epiphone-o...lt-1933-sunbur

My friend, Brian, owns this store in CT, and he's very good to work with.

HE

I have never been able to make peace with an f-hole archtop. Folks who know the beasts and can coax some fine music out of them tell me it is because I go at them like they are a flat top. Probably so.

Point is, buying a guitar because of the sound that somebody else can pull out of the same model can lead to one big disappointment. After 50+ years of playing what I have learned is it does not matter what guitar I am holding in my hands - I still sound like me.

The biggest contributor to Dave Rawlings' sounds is.....Dave Rawlings.

Yeah, I was going to say the same thing - a lot of that sound is old David himself.

There is a point in a Gillian Welch/Dave Rawlings concert where they are switching over to banjos or whatever and Gillian will pick a few bum notes on the Epiphone. As she's handing it back, she says "That's what it sounds like when someone other than Dave plays Dave's guitar."

I agree with everyone that the main contributor to the Rawlins' sound is the man himself. He is a fabulous musician.

As the proud possessor of the same model, same year, though, I have got to say, that these little Epi archtops make a really sweet and distinctive sound and hold their own with guitars made out of much better timbers. They can also play like a dream.:)

The link to photographs in my previous post doesn't seem to work, so try this:

http://www.thegreypicker.moonfruit.c...ery/4573942370

Interesting point about Dave being responsible for most, if not all, of his sound. After watching a couple of youtube vids of Gillian playing his guitar, I have to say I disagree. Sure, Dave's playing is super-unique and certain aspects of the sound are too, but in Gillian's hands, the guitar still sounds the way it sounds when he plays it. That's all I'm looking for. The rest is practice. :D

First, Of course Dave is the "engine". He sounds like himself. And second, you don't need an early '30s Olympic to get that kind of sound. Just a good and lively archtop. I get that same vibe from 16" archtops. (Personally I favor 16" instead of the now almost standard 17" size, but it really doesn't matter)

Many guys don't like archtops and Maccaferri-likes because they sound all wrong if played like regular flat-tops. Thin and harsh. These guitars need to be played in a different way. Don't strum them like a dreadnought, push the strings instead, better with a thick pick with not too pointy tips. Look for some gypsy jazz primer tutorials about how to hold and use the pick on these guitars and for that playing style and you'll learn to approach an acoustic archtop too. You'll be closer to the Rawlins sound than you would expect without the need of a '34 Olympic. Just any good and well setup acoustic archtop guitar will do.

PS, a good starting point is a cheap Dunlop Gator 2.0 pick. I prefer other picks myself, but this one will get you there.

Thank you for sharing these points. Very interesting, especially what you describe about the difference in approaching the archtop. Although I've never played an archtop apart from trying out a few in stores, I realized after reading your post that I've been doing some of that, instinctively, I guess, when I play along to Dave Rawlings and Gillian Welch on my Taylor GS Mini - which is the closest thing to a small-body guitar that I have at this point. :D I used to play the 2.0 mm Gators, until I found they didn't have enough snap for my bluegrass playing. But it's good to know I should keep them around for an archtop. Thanks again for your advice!

Dear OP - I went down this track some years ago.

I searched for archtops that I'd previously disdained - and finally found - on e-bay - a Harmony Monterey - 16 " but in remarkably good condition and the seller was a total gentleman. The Harmony is a pressed top, and in wanting the David Rawlplug sound - a loud but thin tone is a good help. but although the guitar had the capability of emulating his tone a little - it is his choice of using a highly placed capo and his rather odd scales (starts at II - I think maybe a bluesy version of Dorian ??? (as if I know anything about music !)

From then on I fell in love with Archtops - now have three - and hardly play them! They are a completely different instrument to the flat-=top!

There is a video floating around on YouTube with the story on how he got that guitar. IIRC when he purchased it, it didn't have the bridge anymore. He took it to a luthier and (absent mindedly) asked for a solid ebony bridge. :D

Part of that sound comes from having a ebony bridge with no height adjusters.

Surely yes. For more treble or snap get a sharper pointed pick instead and you'll get more bite, but better stick to thick picks to get a full sound for any acoustic guitar. Thin picks sound thin. Fat picks sound fat. With this in mind, choose the thickness, material and the shape/tips to taste.

Yes, the bridge mass has a big impact in sound. For certain guitars I favor light weight bridges, Some others actually need a higher mass. It depends on the particular guitars themselves. Though I tend to favor responsive guitars with light weight (one piece non adjustable) bridges, sometimes the "formula" doesn't work for archtops.

Flat-tops are different beasts. A light weight bridge is almost mandatory or you'll start losing power.