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-   -   A Kinnaird Deep Body OM for cigarfan (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=454390)

TomB'sox 05-25-2017 03:13 PM

Inquiring minds want to know....Steve, are you doing the armrest differently this time...I remember before seeing you cutting and bending one piece of wood for the arm rest, attaching, and then filing sanding into position....the use of the individual ebony tiles on this one????

nacluth 05-25-2017 06:40 PM

Tom, we do them both ways. Sometimes to maximize the beauty of the grain; sometimes to maximize material use. With this jet black ebony, the material savings definitely outweighed the negligible visual distinction. Also, tiling looks attractive on its own in many types of wood, and it's easier to install. Your koa arm bevel benefited from the solid piece though. Don't you think?

TomB'sox 05-25-2017 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nacluth (Post 5352511)
Tom, we do them both ways. Sometimes to maximize the beauty of the grain; sometimes to maximize material use. With this jet black ebony, the material savings definitely outweighed the negligible visual distinction. Also, tiling looks attractive on its own in many types of wood, and it's easier to install. Your koa arm bevel benefited from the solid piece though. Don't you think?

Aye, I believe my Koa bevel is perfect. I have seen you do it that way several time, so this was a little different to me...thanks for the explanation.

Steve Kinnaird 05-25-2017 09:22 PM

Hey Tom, like Ryan said we do it both ways. For jet black Ebony it doesn't make too much sense to blow through a back panel to get a jet black "Nike swoosh".
These tiles do the job in a way very sparing of pricey resources.
Here's one we did in Sankewood tiles for instance, which turned out well, and showed the figure to good advantage:

http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...psshlf17oc.jpg

Thanks for checking in!

Steve

invguy921 05-26-2017 07:43 AM

Thanks Steve and Ryan for the explanation that I too had thought interesting to see the different approach on this one. Gorgeous work at EVERY level!! :up:

One question, surely this doesn't pose a future risk of some kind of separation of the tiles? It seems that with the bending and variability or wood etc, that it might be more apt to future issues. Again, I very well may be and probably am wrong, and I am certainly not trying to be a critic nor do i want to rain on this gorgeous build, but trying to better understand how you guys get this stuff to stick permanently.

I like the work you've done and you guys clearly have abundant experience in these areas and know what it takes to make something "built to last". But as Tom said "Curious and inquiring minds need to know" ;)

Steve Kinnaird 05-26-2017 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by invguy921 (Post 5352953)
Thanks Steve and Ryan for the explanation that I too had thought interesting to see the different approach on this one. Gorgeous work at EVERY level!! :up:

One question, surely this doesn't pose a future risk of some kind of separation of the tiles? It seems that with the bending and variability or wood etc, that it might be more apt to future issues. Again, I very well may be and probably am wrong, and I am certainly not trying to be a critic nor do i want to rain on this gorgeous build, but trying to better understand how you guys get this stuff to stick permanently.

I like the work you've done and you guys clearly have abundant experience in these areas and know what it takes to make something "built to last". But as Tom said "Curious and inquiring minds need to know" ;)

Hey Woody, fair question. Longevity is a concern for every luthier. So we strive for the best joints possible, use the best glues available, follow long established practices, and...offer a warranty! It is amazing that glue, and usually glue alone, holds these things (guitars) together.
Now--there are advantages and disadvantages to either type of bevel cap. But getting to your question, I don't worry about separation of the tiles--with perhaps the exception of serious trauma. Even then, I would anticipate something else would give way first in those unfortunate situations.

And thanks for the kind word!

Steve

cigarfan 05-27-2017 07:31 AM

Bevel complete ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Godfather (Post 5351861)
This is great fun! Thanks for sharing your journey with us Dennis. I am sure all of us here share in your excitement.

Thanks Nic! I am glad to share this guitar evolution with everyone. The journey is certainly one of the great things about a commission. A great big "thanks" are in order for the luthiers sharing the photos of the process. Excitement abound! And this one is narrowing in on being sent off for finish! :up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomB'sox (Post 5352313)
Inquiring minds want to know....Steve, are you doing the armrest differently this time...I remember before seeing you cutting and bending one piece of wood for the arm rest, attaching, and then filing sanding into position....the use of the individual ebony tiles on this one????

Quote:

Originally Posted by invguy921 (Post 5352953)
Thanks Steve and Ryan for the explanation that I too had thought interesting to see the different approach on this one. Gorgeous work at EVERY level!! :up:

One question, surely this doesn't pose a future risk of some kind of separation of the tiles? It seems that with the bending and variability or wood etc, that it might be more apt to future issues. Again, I very well may be and probably am wrong, and I am certainly not trying to be a critic nor do i want to rain on this gorgeous build, but trying to better understand how you guys get this stuff to stick permanently.

I like the work you've done and you guys clearly have abundant experience in these areas and know what it takes to make something "built to last". But as Tom said "Curious and inquiring minds need to know" ;)

A lot of discussion here about technique creating bevels. Glad to have the explanations. Having a couple created for me, mine have always been created using the tile method mainly for the purpose of maintaining grain direction but I have yet to have any issues with tiles losing their grip. For guitar owners, I think Steve hit the nail on the head identifying the "warranty" as the ultimate safety factor. Wood and glue will do what they do over time but I personally like the cross grain aspect of a bevel created with tiles. Even with Ebony where the grain direction is not quite as obvious.

Piecing the tiles together on the bevel.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4226/...ed74d7_o_d.jpg

Filing down the bevel level with the top purfling.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4246/...f511e0_o_d.jpg

Some scraping to get the bevel and top purfling absolutely flush.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4245/...52eb2d_o_d.jpg

The finished bevel. Man that looks comfy! :)

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4200/...3b8dbb_o_d.jpg

cigarfan 05-27-2017 07:34 AM

Top purfling complete ...
 
I have to admit when Steve and I first discussed the Lignum Vitae purfling with 1/3 sapwood and 2/3 heartwood to give a pulsed look, I was skeptical. Then we did a couple photoshop mockups of the rosette. I was completely on board. Now to see it implemented on the top is fabulous! And to see the process to getting there is intriguing too!

Here the slabs of Lignum Vitae cut from the block. These are approximately .055" thick, just shy of 1/16".

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4202/...e19c38_o_d.jpg

Then cut into strips with 1/3 sapwood, 2/3 heartwood.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4195/...704b0e_o_d.jpg

Then each tile is cut to 1/16" wide and mitered at 45 degrees to give the herringbone effect (same as rosette).

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4227/...24b04b_o_d.jpg

The teflon spacer is removed from around the top.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4244/...72b39d_o_d.jpg

And the tedious job of gluing in the tiles begins.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4204/...3f495c_o_d.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4274/...e9fbf7_o_d.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4222/...59f5b8_o_d.jpg

And voila! Awesome job Steve! Looks Beautimus! :)

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4204/...47dd54_o_d.jpg

And the fit around the cutaway horn couldn't be more perfect.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4273/...7774f3_o_d.jpg

cigarfan 05-27-2017 07:36 AM

Body is done ... neck and bridge on the way ...
 
Oh my gosh is that gorgeous!

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4274/...dee758_o_d.jpg

I have to sit down before I pass out!

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4222/...4c0f99_o_d.jpg

Here that gorgeous fretboard meets the neck.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4198/...66d17d_o_d.jpg

Relieving the heel on the neck. Ryan explains, "Essentially the end of the neck is flat and the OM still has a little curve at the neck block, so mating a flat neck to a curved body is a difficult task. To help the issue, we relieve the inside of the heel of some material - usually about 1/10" deep. We leave about a 1/8" ledge along the sides of the heel shape. This allows the neck to sit flush against the body instead of rocking on a high center. This one step does not completely solve the mating dilemma, but it gets us a fair way down the road."

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4223/...b81ed8_o_d.jpg

The saddle slot is cut into the bridge.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4274/...8db695_o_d.jpg

TomB'sox 05-27-2017 07:51 AM

That looks really really cool, to be able to make something so consistent from a natural color variation in the wood is awesome. Natural herringbone! It is a perfect touch on the guitar IMO.

Diamondave 05-27-2017 12:10 PM

Coming together superb....!!!

invguy921 05-27-2017 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomB'sox (Post 5354146)
That looks really really cool, to be able to make something so consistent from a natural color variation in the wood is awesome. Natural herringbone! It is a perfect touch on the guitar IMO.

Make that X2!!!!! WOW what great work!!

love that purfling!! :up::up::up:

Mbroady 05-27-2017 01:40 PM

Drool!!!! ..........

Steve Kinnaird 05-27-2017 04:11 PM

Thanks guys! Positive strokes always appreciated.
First radial purfling on Tom's OM, and now LV "herringbone" on Dennis'.
We love it when the customer pushes us out of our rut.

Steve

SnowManSnow 05-27-2017 08:31 PM

That's all really good work. Well done Mr. K. I REALLY like that it's all wood... as far as the appointments go. Really cool


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