The Acoustic Guitar Forum - McKnight Lowlander--Final Pictures!

The Acoustic Guitar Forum (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/index.php)

- Custom Shop (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=38)

- - McKnight Lowlander--Final Pictures! (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=534826)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil K Walk (Post 5958663)

I understand. It ties in well. I was surprised that you chose herringbone but I think the pattern benefits from the differing contrasts and hues of the purfling.

Thank you , Neil. I'm very happy with how the rosette turned out--yes, it's a simple affair, but I don't want the rosette to steal the show, just blend in and lay low, keeping in harmony with the other visual elements.

Finishing the inner back/side details before closing the box

Adding the carbon fiber tubes to add neck reinforcement. Final sanding of the inner back is complete.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/A5...M=w367-h275-no

Sanding the rim to the proper radius for the soundboard.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/l9...Y=w206-h275-no

Spraying the inside with a protective finish to help prevent adverse effects of moisture.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/aI...E=w493-h657-no

Inner area completed .

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Hn...c=w876-h657-no

Cutting out areas to fit the soundboard braces.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/vG...E=w876-h657-no

Ready to close the box!

Gluing the soundboard to the side rims

Routing off the excess spruce

Neck assembly "in the raw"

This will give you a general idea of the fretboard and headstock shape. I've always appreciated the tapered fretboard style and often wondered why it is so rarely used--does anyone ever play on those upper frets?
Of course it looks odd since this design is so rarely used, but I think some of the modern-style luthiers (I know of a only a few who've made examples of this) could create different styles of tapered fretboards that are very attractive--you can use a straight line like on mine, or use a curvy style, in any number of different ways, depending on what fret you start the taper, how many total frets you want, etc.
Anyways, I like the look, but I don't expect it to become common anytime soon!
I looked at numerous examples of vintage and vintage reproduction instruments for ideas and this is what Tim and I settled on. It has 22 frets.

Yes, that fretboard is Pernambuco! It should make an excellent fretboard, but of course due to it's extreme rarity and light color, it's not exactly a popular choice. I think this particular piece is going to look very nice once it's fretted and oiled.
Headstock veneer is a very dark, streak-free piece of quartersawn Gabon Ebony.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/bF...s=w876-h657-no

I like where you going with this! :)

That endgraft looks way cool. :up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by cigarfan (Post 5965528)

I like where you going with this! :)

That endgraft looks way cool. :up:

Thanks!

It may be cold outside, but things are cookin' in the McKnight Guitars workshop!
Tim has pretty much finished all the mitered bindings and purflings, so stay tuned...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/U9...A=w876-h657-no

However .... behind the scenes no one sees the discouragement and pile of bindings and purflings that lay in fractured pieces. The tight radius of the cutaway is giving me fits and I continue my THIRD day of attempting to coax these cantankerous pieces into their new shape which they are obviously not too happy with. Good thoughts and prayers would certainly be appreciated...

HELP! CITES restrictions and Pernambuco guitars--Exempt or not?

So I'm briefly interrupting the build thread with this question. I may post the question in General depending on the responses I get here.

I'm posing this question because Tim recently spent over an hour (bless his heart!) talking to someone from either FWS or DHS (it was someone he was directed to in order to discuss this general issue of CITES and permits) and Tim relayed this, "(IF) I were shipping the guitar to you I am REQUIRED by US law to provide the (international) recipient with CITES permit because Pernambuco is listed on the convention as an endangered species, regardless if its in log or finished form", and that I need to get a CITES permit myself if I want to travel overseas with it--basically, a Pernambuco guitar IS regulated by CITES Appendix II.

But, as far as I know, based on reading CITES itself, as well as numerous explanations on the issue (some included below), a Pernambuco instrument (violin bow, guitar, oboe, whatever) is absolutely exempt from CITES restrictions.

As such, shipping or traveling with a Pernambuco instrument requires no CITES permit, Musical Instrument Certificate (MIC), or any other formal CITES-related documentation, and the quote above given to Tim by some federal bureaucrat (in particular, "regardless if its in log or finished form") is in clear contradiction to everything written on the topic.

Specifically, any "finished" Pernambuco product (which would obviously include violin bows and guitars) is simply outside the purview of the CITES Appendix II restrictions on Pernambuco, and is free to roam the world.

If you believe I am in error, please share the relevant documentation stating otherwise!!:guitar:
It may be worth noting that we're talking about Pernambuco--NOT Brazilian Rosewood which, as most of you are well aware, is heavily restricted under Appendix I--this is a completely separate issue.

Here are the facts as I know them:

In June of 2007, Pernambuco (the Echinata variety) was listed on CITES Appendix II, but with the following annotation (#10): https://www.speciesplus.net/#/taxon_...ts/18906/legal

"Logs, sawn wood, veneer sheets, including UNFINISHED wood articles used for the fabrication of bows for stringed musical instruments"

--this lists the specific/particular forms of "P" that are restricted under CITES and require permits for import/export.
All of these forms of "P" are wood in it's raw, unfinished form, you'll note.

About three months later on August 14th, 2007, a key statement clarifying the "P" restrictions was released by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services (FWS):

https://americanorchestras.org/image...ach_letter.pdf

In it, there is the following statement:
"The following commodities are regulated by the CITES listing of Pernambuco: logs, sawn wood, veneer sheets, and unfinished wood articles used for the fabrication of bows used for stringed musical instruments. The listing does NOT include FINISHED wood articles made of Pernambuco wood".

That last sentence, it seems to me, indicates that a guitar with Pernambuco back and sides is NOT within the purview of the CITES restrictions because a guitar is clearly a "finished wood article", just like a violin bow. By contrast, a Pernambuco back/side tone wood set or a fretboard blank WOULD be subject to CITES regulations because it's not a finished wood product and would likely be considered as "sawn wood", a term specifically used in the CITES listing.

Another statement from the same article:

"Finished bows and other finished articles made of Pernambuco wood are not covered by the listing and are not subject to the provision of CITES. If you intend to ship finished pernambuco bows or products internationally...you will not be required to obtain CITES documents"

I am unaware of any subsequent amendments, alterations, modifications, etc., to this document.

Here is yet another useful quote on the topic (there are many I've found) from February 5th, 2018. It's from a website giving detailed CITES information for traveling musicians :

http://on-the-move.org/files/fim_cit...nal.01%201.pdf

"The Pernambuco exemption
Pernambuco (Caesalpinia echinata) was listed in CITES Appendix II in 2007. Pernambuco logs, sawn wood, veneer sheets and unfinished articles used for the fabrication of bows for stringed musical instruments are classified under Appen- dix II. This listing does not include finished articles made of Pernambuco wood. Therefore, no certificate is required if you cross a border with an instrument/bow containing Pernambuco wood. This exemption does not apply to other protected species (e.g. ivory) that this instrument/bow may contain."

I can list other websites with similar claims about Pernambuco instruments being exempt from CITES, but I think I've made my point, if you've followed thus far.

So, anyone with special knowledge or experience with this question that can show me any official CITES-related statement to the contrary?

I had thought at first this was a straight forward issue, but after the information Tim received, I'm confused.

Thank you for taking the time to read this and share your knowledge!

Given the quotes you have provided, I would think you should be safe shipping/traveling with Pernambuco but I would make one suggestion.

You should compile the quotes above in a short document and include that piece in the shipment or carry it with you when traveling. I don't think customs officials are completely versed in the subject and having pertinent quotes from the official policy documents would help them as they assess the situation.

Just a suggestion.

And my prayers are with you Tim! :)

I thought of that, too. And fortunately, nowadays most airports have free wifi and you can just pull it up directly from the FWS website and other websites.

I should note that Tim has gone out of his way to verify all of these details, and it's frustrating that we got what seems to be erroneous information, so I'm doing my own verification of the issue.

(ok, so I've officially derailed my own thread...)

A respected member of the AGF community emailed me and suggested, to be safe, I still apply for a CITES permit or Musical Instrument Certificate (MIC). Well, I suppose I could try, but if the person(s) who actually process my application see that the plant/wildlife species included in the instrument are, in fact, NOT regulated by CITES, wouldn't they be obligated to reject my application and kindly inform me of my error?
Sure, my application might be mindlessly passed along and approved, permit issued and sent to me. But I'd think that if someone involved in processing my application noticed that none of the species listed were actually regulated by CITES (i.e., the Pernambuco exemption for finished wood products like...GUITARS!), they would have to summarily reject the application, as a matter of the agency's internal policies. Otherwise, you could have people needlessly getting these MICs for a guitar or other instrument with any and every conceivable non-CITES regulated species, and creating more confusion for customs officials who happen to be reviewing the documents when presented at a point of entry with an instrument to be checked out.

Wow, what a digression...hopefully we'll be back to the build soon! Thank you all for your kind indulgences...hang in there, Tim!