The Acoustic Guitar Forum

The Acoustic Guitar Forum (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/index.php)
-   Acoustic Amplification (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
-   -   Dave's compact PA system adventures... (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=460881)

dannyg1 04-03-2017 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuki79 (Post 5274953)
I thought the battery was the limitation... 320W it's a lot (and I suppose Class-D amp run t full efficency). I mean it can work few hours... But you have to charge it right away.

Also most batteries have to be recharged once in a while.

You can't leave the thing unplugged for 6 months and expect it to work readly at full potential.

Many people would buy it thinking it's cool, then forget about the battery and complain when it's dead.

Cuki

320w (at least true wattage) is far too much for any 12v system to ablely power. The battery voltage would sag far too low for an inverter system to put out 120v and the heat inside the box would be very high. Even with an amp that was powered directly at 48v or so (like a stepped up car amplifier), the run time would be really short for a huge, heavy battery. Remember, it takes 4 12v batteries to make a 48v system at the same ah rating. So 4x the weight without any increase in run time.

martingitdave 04-07-2017 10:25 PM

Dave's compact PA system adventures...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gfa (Post 5292340)
Glad to hear you are settling into a happy place with your system. Although, I guess that means the rest of us may not be getting more demo reports from you!



I may have one more demo report for you...

Last week, we read a very nice review of the Mackie Freeplay here on AGF. This was a unit I had considered two years ago, but quickly forgot about.

It was recommended as a nice mini PA with Bluetooth, or as an acoustic amp replacement. The more reading I did, the more I liked the idea of a really small performance, battery powered - outdoor party, or quiet rehearsal where a studio monitor would also work. The JBL sounds terrific, but it is too powerful for soft practice when my wife and girls are asleep. I like to do my rehearsals plugged in, and singing through a mic, like the performance.

Lastly, since I already have the amp modeler pedal board from Line 6, I can actually use this unit as an electric guitar amp too.

With the above in mind, I said to myself, "if I find a used one in good condition for a good price, I'll buy it." I set my eBay alert and found a "like new" model with the bag for $200. Since I was considering an acoustic amp for $250 to $500, I feel pretty good about it. It should get here next week. I'll post a review to this thread. Now, I'll have both compact, and mini PA options, with, or without, battery power. All I need are some more gigs.

BTW, I'm still having a hard time convincing the club to scale down our PA to an XR16 mixer and one, or more, JBL Eon One(s). Personally, based on the little I've actually used it, I'd say it's the best sounding, and most full featured, PA system I've owned.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Cuki79 04-08-2017 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyg1 (Post 5292457)
320w (at least true wattage) is far too much for any 12v system to ablely power. The battery voltage would sag far too low for an inverter system to put out 120v and the heat inside the box would be very high. Even with an amp that was powered directly at 48v or so (like a stepped up car amplifier), the run time would be really short for a huge, heavy battery. Remember, it takes 4 12v batteries to make a 48v system at the same ah rating. So 4x the weight without any increase in run time.

So it brings us back to our former discussion. They probably use a 14.8v or more
http://www.all-battery.com/productim...-02%20x250.jpg
Don't forget that the JBL eon one pro waits 37.5 lbs/17 kg. The Bose L1 compact is 13 Kg. There is room for 4 Kg of batterry.

So to sum up, Dannyg1 and I have doubts about it working at full power. However on the video the guy says it's not working in a "low power" mode.

One possibility is that they used some DSP treatment like Maxx Bass to get bass from harmonics and reduce the need on real watts for the bass.

Another possibility is that in one year, we will see many units returning with dead/faulty batteries.

martingitdave 04-08-2017 06:49 AM

Dave's compact PA system adventures...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuki79 (Post 5297567)
So it brings us back to our former discussion. They probably use a 14.8v or more

http://www.all-battery.com/productim...-02%20x250.jpg

Don't forget that the JBL eon one pro waits 37.5 lbs/17 kg. The Bose L1 compact is 13 Kg. There is room for 4 Kg of batterry.



So to sum up, Dannyg1 and I have doubts about it working at full power. However on the video the guy says it's not working in a "low power" mode.



One possibility is that they used some DSP treatment like Maxx Bass to get bass from harmonics and reduce the need on real watts for the bass.



Another possibility is that in one year, we will see many units returning with dead/faulty batteries.



I suspect you're correct that the battery power requires some sort of compromise. My guess is that the inverter, battery, power amplifier and the new 8" speaker are higher quality components than usual. And, maybe they are measuring "power" in terms of sound power level (dB) or sound pressure level (SPL) output, in a specific octave band(s), and not electrical power (wattage)? In which case, there is a lot of room for engineering and marketing when stating 6 hours at full power. Regardless, there has to be some interesting gear inside the new box.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Cuki79 04-08-2017 07:20 AM

I don't think there is an inverter. Well nothing to produce 210-220vac. The class d amp will be probably fed straight from the battery. Inside the amp thy have to convert 220vac to dc voltage anyway.

A nxp TDA8953 chip would provide 2x210w when supplied with +/- 40v dc. I don't know if there are step-up dc converters that can handle such power but it would be probably more efficient than going to 220vac and then return to +/-40vdc. And it would also weight less... You'd save on transformers

martingitdave 04-08-2017 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuki79 (Post 5297722)
I don't think there is an inverter. Well nothing to produce 210-220vac. The class d amp will be probably fed straight from the battery. Inside the amp thy have to convert 220vac to dc voltage anyway.

A nxp TDA8953 chip would provide 2x210w when supplied with +/- 40v dc. I don't know if there are step-up dc converters that can handle such power but it would be probably more efficient than going to 220vac and then return to +/-40vdc. And it would also weight less... You'd save on transformers



That makes perfect sense. Being a mechanical guy, I incorrectly interchange inverters, converters, rectifiers, and other such gobbledygook.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

kgreener 04-08-2017 08:33 PM

Hi all, first post :) Since you're talking about the JBL Eon One and battery-powered systems, have you seen this one yet? I believe it is soon to be released by JBL. Big bucks though, if Sweetwater's price is accurate:

http://www.jblpro.com/Microsite-eonone-pro/

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EONOnePro

martingitdave 04-08-2017 09:42 PM

Dave's compact PA system adventures...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kgreener (Post 5298471)
Hi all, first post :) Since you're talking about the JBL Eon One and battery-powered systems, have you seen this one yet? I believe it is soon to be released by JBL. Big bucks though, if Sweetwater's price is accurate:



http://www.jblpro.com/Microsite-eonone-pro/



https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EONOnePro



That certainly looks like a great system. We started a thread about it recently. Lots of interest from AGF members. After getting my original Eon One sorted out in terms of its onboard mixer and an external digital mixer, I'd satisfied with it, and have no desire to trade up to the latest.

In addition, I bought a used Mackie Freeplay on a whim because the price was very low. Besides my use for singer songwriter stuff and as a guitar amp, I can see using it for parties, outdoor activities, and karaoke with the family.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Cuki79 04-08-2017 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgreener (Post 5298471)
Hi all, first post :) Since you're talking about the JBL Eon One and battery-powered systems, have you seen this one yet? I believe it is soon to be released by JBL. Big bucks though, if Sweetwater's price is accurate:

http://www.jblpro.com/Microsite-eonone-pro/

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EONOnePro

That's actually what we are taking about Martingitdave reported first about this one. I believe the only one who saw it must have been in Frankfurt (Germany) at the musikmesse where it was released. Nobody has posted anything yet. You'd probably have more chance to have "field report "on a German forum.

davidvac 04-09-2017 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martingitdave (Post 5266969)

All I need is something cheap, that sounds good at modest volume, so I can rehearse and not annoy my wife. And, the fact that I can potentially take it somewhere to play for 50 or less quiet, folk music loving people, is a bonus.


Have you seen Laney's AH4x4. It's small but packs a solid punch. So it works nicely for rehearsal at home and for small 50 person gigs. Has on board mixer and basic fx. Multiple input channels and can be daisy chained with others or used as a monitor with separate PA systems for the bigger venues. I have fallen in love with it and I use it with a tc-helicon play acoustic for the pedal control and better fx.



David Vachell
https://soundcloud.com/david-vachell

martingitdave 04-09-2017 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidvac (Post 5298700)
Have you seen Laney's AH4x4. It's small but packs a solid punch. So it works nicely for rehearsal at home and for small 50 person gigs. Has on board mixer and basic fx. Multiple input channels and can be daisy chained with others or used as a monitor with separate PA systems for the bigger venues. I have fallen in love with it and I use it with a tc-helicon play acoustic for the pedal control and better fx.



David Vachell
https://soundcloud.com/david-vachell



Hi David, I managed to sort out my PA needs, with the JBL Eon One. I'll also be experimenting with the Mackie FreePlay when it arrives. The Laney 4x4 was part of this thread, or another one recently. It was well regarded for small performances. I also been using the TC Play Acoustic to provide processing before going to any speaker. It works well and provides consistent tone wherever I play. I think that's the biggest benefit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

NotValid 12-04-2017 02:24 AM

So, where are you now Ún your adventure?

martingitdave 12-04-2017 05:26 AM

Dave's compact PA system adventures...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NotValid (Post 5557259)
So, where are you now Ún your adventure?



NotValid,

Good question! About 6 months ago I got fed up with the myriad of equipment I had purchased.

Each time Iíd try and solve the ďproblemĒ, Iíd end up having to buy more gear to make up for the shortcomings of the last thing I bought. Mostly, I was having issues with the gain staging of the compact equipment. The preamps were poor. I even added a QSC TouchMix to help. I also decided that I would keep the acoustic and electric amplification separate. I was struggling with all the complicated modeling boards and my Variax guitar.

It was a bit of a vicious cycle. Moreover, I was trying to limit expenditures, so I was looking for ďdealsĒ with each iteration.

So, I sold the entire closet full of PA gear and Variax system, and kept only the Mackie FreePlay. That was the only piece of gear I was using successfully. I decided that I would look at one of the newly released systems and purchase one that didnít require any ďbandaidsĒ and sounded great.

Iíve come to the conclusion that there are a few good options out there depending on your needs - systems that get universally good reviews:

Bose L1 (C, S or M2)
Line 6 L2t or L3t
Fishman SA 220 or 330
Fishman Loudbox Artist/Performer
HK Lucas Nano (600, 605fx, 608i)
LD Systems Maui (5, 11, or 28)

I decided to wait until a sale came along for one of the above. In the meantime, I tried a few of these and contemplated which would work well now and which would give me a little flexibility if I were to start performing with the group again. All would work fine for now.

The HK Lucas Nano 608i was the only one with a proper built in mixer (minimum 4 combo jacks) for future needs. I would have needed a Bose T1, Fishman Expander, or small mixer for everything else.

A 608i went became available at a very good discount and I bought it. Itís a very good piece of equipment. Iíve actually stopped looking online and researching since I bought it. Thatís usually a good sign for me. :-)

The 608i and Mackie FreePlay will cover everything I need it to. I use the FreePlay for small rooms up to about 40-50 people. I will use the 608i in situations up to 200 people (HK says up to 120 people, but my people are usually quiet). I donít do anything more than that. If I do, someone else can do the sound. :-)

As far as electric guitar goes, the pendulum swung the other way. Instead of Variax and modeling board, I bought a Fender American Vintage Ď65 Stratocaster and Ď65 Deluxe Reverb reissue. Iíve also stopped looking at electric guitars and amps. After a brief flurry of pedal auditions, I settled on 3 (OCD Overdrive, Dunlop Mini Wah, TC Chorus/Delay) plus a TC Poly tuner.

The irony of all this is that my business has been so demanding that I havenít sought out any opportunities to use any of it since August.

NotValid 12-04-2017 06:09 AM

Ohhh, ahhhhh, yummmmmy, droooool, you got a DRRI. Amp gas goes away very quickly after bringing one of those home. But then tube rolling gas sets in. Congrats. I miss mine, but to get that "tone" one needs to play loud enough that your next audience will most likely be the cops. City/Apartment life sucks when it comes to that noise issue.

Regarding the MFP, I am actually surprised thats a keeper for you. Here in Europe its impossible to find it on sale so we have to pay full price which puts it within range of the Maui 5 or the EAE A4-8. If I could get a deal like you did I would most likely have one by now. At full price, plus needing an additional mixer, its just too much money for what it is. But I am happy its working out for you.

martingitdave 12-04-2017 06:40 AM

Dave's compact PA system adventures...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NotValid (Post 5557324)
Ohhh, ahhhhh, yummmmmy, droooool, you got a DRRI. Amp gas goes away very quickly after bringing one of those home. But then tube rolling gas sets in. Congrats. I miss mine, but to get that "tone" one needs to play loud enough that your next audience will most likely be the cops. City/Apartment life sucks when it comes to that noise issue.



Regarding the MFP, I am actually surprised thats a keeper for you. Here in Europe its impossible to find it on sale so we have to pay full price which puts it within range of the Maui 5 or the EAE A4-8. If I could get a deal like you did I would most likely have one by now. At full price, plus needing an additional mixer, its just too much money for what it is. But I am happy its working out for you.


Agreed on all points. MFP at $400 or less (all in) is doable. But not for the retail price they are asking. Also, I use the XLR - TS cables that I made to boost the signal. So, I donít need a mixer. Itís only for solo use.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:20 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, The Acoustic Guitar Forum

vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=