Lambert Neck Adjustment System
 

http://s1340.beta.photobucket.com/us...4d137.jpg.htmlThis morning I changed the strings on this guitar before sending down to Austin. I used a slightly lighter gauge than I had on there previously. Guess what - string buzz. I whipped out my trustly Allen wrench, and thanks to the neck adjustment system, I was able to give the guitar the perfect playing action in about 60 seconds. I love this system.

There is a good photo at:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

Yes, he's got a great idea-- and I'm sure he's proud to have it in your capable hands, Chris!

Steve

photo
 

I'm sorry that the photo does not show. I'm new at posting on the forum, and I must not be following the instructions correctly. I'll try to post the facebook photo link.There is a photo at;
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

I looked at the Facebook pic, Chris, and it seems like the adjustment is for the neck angle. I may misunderstand what I'm looking at (I suspect it strongly), but does it somehow affect the relief as well?

Somebody gave me a copy of the March AG mag yesterday, and judging by the cover (I havent cracked it yet) it appears some congratulations are in order as well; if so congratulations!

Sorry - I don't get it. Is it just some allen screws in the neck block and holes in the body to reach them? More detail requested -

You Are Correct Bruce
 

Bruce, yes the bolt changes the neck angle. It has no effect on relief. The neck is resting on a fulcrum at the level of the 12th fret. The bolt raises an lowers the end of the neck, which moves the strings closer or further from the frets. It works very well and precisely. Each full revolution of the wrench changes the fret to string distance at the 12th fret about 0.002". I will look forward to seeing you again so I can show it to you in person.

Thanks for the comment on the Acoustic Guitar Magazine cover. It was a surprise, but a welcome one.

Chris

Chris, my thinking then is that changing to light gauge strings and the subsequent rattling you describe is a relief issue, not a neck angle issue. Of course it can be addressed by raising the saddle, as it were, and many people do this, but the reason for the problem is not directly addressed this way. That said, I find the mechanical neck angle adjustment mechanism interesting to say the least. I have seen such on mid-nineteenth century instruments and also on Ken Parker's latest archtops. It makes a lot of sense and appeals to the tinkerer in me.

Lambert system
 

Bruce, a Scottish transplant to Texas, Derek Lambert came up with the basic idea I use. I also use his parts, which he hopes to be marketing soon. However, I modified it to fit what Jeremy and I do. You might like it.
The way our guitars are built, I think most of the change in string height from changing gauges of strings comes from the sound board moving up or down a bit secondary to the change in tension. That 11 piece laminate neck doesn't change much if any, although I see how those things could be different for someone using different construction.
I hope to see you in Healdsburg.

Neck Angle Adjustment
 

Mike Baranik also uses a neck angle adjustment system via an allen wrench on his Meridian and 00m models.

I don't know the exact mechanics, but on the Meridian the end of the neck sits inside a pocket on the body (presumably upon a fulcrum underneath). When I first looked at a friends Meridian, I had to be told the neck was adjustable. After looking closely, I was amazed at how well it was executed.

Here are a couple of photos of Phil's Meridians as an example:
http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps4dda9f93.jpg
http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/o...pse1b6277f.jpg

I'm looking forward to getting my new Meridian in a few months!

Come on over to the dark side, Bruce. It's hard to go back.

I was going to make a joke about the paradox of a high tech adjustable neck on guitars built on a plantilla but of course you're correct. Different versions have been around for a long time. But there are still a lot of traditionalists who seem to pooh pooh them. I have to believe that "non-traditional" perception is why some of the big factories haven't converted to them. It would be a time saver on the assembly line plus a huge savings on warrantee neck resets. Not to mention the convenience for the player as mentioned in the first post.

Just to chime in - I'm a big fan of the adjustable neck arrangement, and am using my own approach with everything I build.

Rather than adjusting the angle, though, I prefer to slide or "translate" the neck up and down, while maintaining the angle. This minimizes one common issue with angle adjusters, which is a significant change in tuning during adjustment.
The "vertical" or sliding neck joint approach actually requires minimal or no retuning with small to medium adjustments - it's actually practical enough to do between songs!

Ken Parker's neck joint is a sliding adjustment, not an angle adjuster. He's dialed in the angle carefully so it doesn't go out of tune at all - and it really works!

The sliding system also allows for a bigger active contact surface between neck and body. Most fulcrum-type systems necessarily rely on fairly small points of contact.

Here's an exploded view of the "guts" of my neck joint:
http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/...attachment.jpg

And here's the adjuster access on the finished guitar:
http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6afe91b8.jpg

A 1/8" allen key adjusts from super-low to slide-high. This is a "push-pull" system, so it does not rely on string tension for movement in either direction. There's a nice big contact surface on the "rails" of the track, and it moves smooth-as-silk even fully up to pitch.

As for how it compares to a hand-cut dovetail, I'm not going there...this is a very strong and positive joint, and I'm more than pleased with the results.

Cheers!
Martin

I agree, although Taylor certainly has "come over" to the dark side - although not necessarily a user-adjustable feature, their neck joint is fully adjustable with the laser-cut shims, and pretty much obviates the need for any woodwork in the event of a neck-reset scenario. The whole thing just bolts together. Granted, Taylor is probably the least "trad" of the big makers, but IMO they've done a lot of the groundwork towards proving the viability of bolted-on and non-traditional neck joints in the larger market.

Martin did briefly experiment with Jeff Babicz's sliding neck joint system as well, although I don't think they ever went commercial with the results.

The thing I like best about the adjustable neck is that it permits fine adjustment at the setup stage of many important variables, particularly break angle over the bridge. By varying bridge/saddle height, you can adjust the load on the top and add a measure of control over how the guitar responds - I've got over a 1/4" of variability to play with on my bridge height, and the difference between the two extremes of the range is quite significant! It's just another dimension of control for the maker.

Cheers,
Martin

It really reminds me of the T-slot system used on most machine tools - I see the value of it in changing up tooling or setting up jigs, and it might be a real advantage for machine-oriented production, but in an acoustic guitar where every element has an effect on the sound, I have to wonder just how much these systems add versus how much they subtract. I see the advantages in electric instruments, where so much of the sound is dependent on the electronics and the neck to body connection is smaller and more in-line with the strings, but its gonna be a bit of time and alot more first hand experience before I'm convinced these "patent" guitars really benefit guitarists, or luthiers in general -

But I will try to keep an open mind, and open ears -

I'd be happy to send you one of my guitars sometime so you can find out.

I changed over to an adjustable neck in stages so I could know if there was any effect on tone. If anything, I found a net gain by getting the fingerboard off the top.

And this feature absolutely benefits guitarists. I just emailed to check in with a client in NJ who was getting some buzzing when the heat came on this winter. After determining that it wasn't a relief issue, he adjusted the neck (raised the action) and everything is fine. I did the reverse on my guitar to adjust for the high humidity when I took it to Hawaii last month. Got home and adjusted it back. No saddle shims to mess with. It's a 30 second job.

And Martin Keith makes an excellent point that most people don't get right away. The adjustable neck allows the saddle height (bridge torque) to be adjusted independently of the action. This is a very good thing!

The fact that you will never need a neck reset is also good for the player, imo.

But the open mind is the key. If people make up their minds that adjustable necks hurt sound, that's what they hear. That's one reason I go to some trouble to keep mine unnoticeable. People will often play them for 15 minutes and never notice the elevated fingerboard and may never notice the adjustable neck.

Never say never!