Question about Gotoh tuners
 

I’m getting a new Eastman AC822CE all Koa and it comes with Gotoh SG310’s. Does anyone know if they can be replaced with Gotoh 510’s without having to drill new holes? Thank you in advance.

Firstly they are not Gotoh 310's - they are Gotoh 301's.

Looking at the spec drawings of the SG 301's and SGV510's the distance from the center of the string shaft to the center of the locating screw hole are identical (10.5mm) - same washer and nut size too - should be a simple straight swap.

https://i.imgur.com/vaG5PcVh.jpg https://i.imgur.com/FmdKImhl.jpg

I notice the locating screws are the same length but those supplied with the 510's is just slightly fatter near the top - 2.1mm vs 2.4mm - I'd re-use the ones that came out because you know they already fit.

Acoustom, I’m a huge fan of Gotoh tuners, and actually worked with them as a consultant when they were developing better quality mandolin and planetary banjo pegs - they didn’t pay me any money for my help but they gave me about a dozen sets of tuners out of the deal, so I can’t complain!

So I’m very familiar with all the tuners Gotoh makes, and have both sealed gear 510’s and 301’s on most of my instruments. (I own lots of instruments.)

Quite honestly, there really isn’t any compelling reason to replace 301’s with 510’s - both are extremely accurate and exceedingly smooth functioning. If I thought I would get better performance out of 510’s on my instruments that currently have 301’s, I’d swap them out in a heartbeat.

But it would gain me precisely nothing if I did that.

Seriously.

My suggestion is that if you want to dress up the guitar a little bit, get some nice aftermarket tuner buttons in either wood or high grade plastic. Among the wooden buttons I have on my instruments are ebony, snakewood and what I think is cherry, while the hand-machined plastic buttons I have are in ivoroid and tortoiseshell.

My personal favorite button shape is the rectangular Schaller-style buttons, but they’re also available in the Grover kidney bean shape and the futuristic Jetsons-like button shape that comes stock on 510’s.

So, seriously, if you want to spend the money on 510’s, go ahead. But it’s unnecessary because you won’t get much discernible improvement in performance. You can spend a LOT less money and get more visually enticing tuners out of the deal if you keep the 301’s and put some fancy aftermarket tuner buttons on them.

It’s your call, naturally, but my friends can attest to what a perfectionist I am when it comes to guitar tuners. I won’t tolerate mediocre tuners for an instant longer than I have to - it’s a quirk of mine, I admit it.

It was that same perfectionism in this regard that convinced the folks at Gotoh to ask me to work with them in developing better mandolin tuners - I was working with the National Reso-Phonic Guitar Company to develop what became the National RM-1 resonator mandolin at the same time.

So I’m intimately acquainted with Gotoh tuners on a professional level, and I think you should save your money and just get nicer tuner buttons on the 301’s.

Believe me, I wouldn’t be posting that if it wasn’t true.

If you do get aftermarket buttons, just make certain that they’re specifically for Gotoh’s; don’t buy any cheapo sets off eBay that claim to fit all brands. All of the tuner brands use different shaft shapes from each other, and anything that will fit onto all of them will be necessarily oversized, and deliver lousy, sloppy tuner performance as a result.

Whereas the tuner brand-specific buttons fit exactly.

Hope this helps.


Wade Hampton Miller

That’s been my experience as well...
 

I have guitars with 510s and 301s and there is no noticeable difference in quality. Both are very smooth operation and simply the best tuners out there regardless of price.

Thank you Bruce Wade and Nik for some very well thought out advice on the Gotoh tuners. And sorry about the gaff on the the model number. I knew what I meant but my fingers didn’t lol. I’ve had the 510’s on several guitars and love the look and feel of them. I had never heard of the 301’s and was concerned they might be a bit lacking in quality compared to the 510’s. The other reason is that I really love the look of the 510’s. They’re very ergonomically appealing to me. However after the feedback from all of you I think that I’ll give the 301’s a fair try and just upgrade the tuner buttons as Wade suggested. Thank you all for your very thoughtful and technical reply’s.

Blessings,
Tom

I recently replaced a set of Ibanez (Grover style) tuners with Gotoh 301's in gold on an old Archtop. The tuners are excellent and fit perfectly. I got a good deal from a seller called guitarhey.

I'll be replacing the Grovers on my 335 with a another set of 301's soon.

No experience with 301s, but I replaced the 381s on my Lowden with 510s (the 18:1 version) - a perfect drop-in fit and, despite what others say, I felt a noticeable improvement in performance. Those 510s are the best tuners I’ve had on any guitar - ever.

The ‘old’ 381s...

Attachment 45288

The ‘new’ 510s...

Attachment 45289

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.

One reason to justify stepping up to 510s: if you want a 1:21 ratio, it is available only on 510s. I love the high ratio, no twisting the knob 1/16th of a turn to get that harmonic dead on. They are also made in Japan (thus the higher price) and smooth as silk. Luthier's Merchantile has wooden knobs in the Schaller or Rotomatic shape (can't remember which) if you want a more traditional look.

I first looked into 510s after noticing that EVERY boutique $5,000+ I saw came stock with them. They are unmistakable. Since they are a drop in fit, you can always swap them back out if you decide to sell your guitar.

Thank you all for your input. No place like AGF to get the best info on acoustic guitars. You guys rock!! Or in the acoustic world, you guys fingerpick eloquently. Lol