Walden neck reset (help/info requested)
 

So my Walden has needed a neck reset since I bought it.... at the time, I had no idea a NEW guitar could need a neck reset, but live and learn. SO... a little research tell me that Waldens have a bolt-on neck, like the pre-NT neck on Taylors.... neck is bolted on, fingerboard glued down to the top. I found this description of a Walden neck reset, and it doesn't sound too difficult....


Did a neck reset on a Walden today

I'm a big fan of Walden guitars. I have this all solid wood Grand Auditorium model that I bought for stupid money at a sale 2 years ago.
It had a wee bit of a bad neck angle and I decided to e-mail Walden to find out exactly what config the bolted joint was so that I could know how to go about the job.
One of the big shots there called Jon Lee e-mailed me back within an hour with the answer.

The guitar has the same bolted butt-joint at the heel as the earlier Taylors with only the fret board extension glued to the top.

So in a nut shell, I determined the amount I needed to remove from the heel and marked it, applied masking tape around the affected area, undid the 2 bolts, and cut the heel systematically with 180-grit sand paper, put the bolts back, shimmed the saddle temporarily by 1,5mm, restrung and voila!!! - 2 hours later I have a great playable guitar again and it sounds terrific. It is amazing what a remarkable difference additional saddle height makes to tone, response and volume, and still have the benefit of a better action at the 12th fret.



How difficult a job would this be, do you think, for someone who has never done a neck reset on an acoustic (but has shimmed electric necks, and do most of my own guitar work)? My goal is to raise the saddle to get a better break angle... right now, I can't lower the saddle ANY more w/o risking interference with string vibration.

I also found this page, which seem to be a neck reset on an old-neck-style Taylor, was going to use this as a "guide" (altho my Walden appears to have a WOOD COVER for the bolts, not a piece of paper....)

http://fingerlakesguitarrepair.com/t...lt-neck-reset/


Here's my Walden's situation currently:

as you can see, while the neck angle isn't TOO bad, the saddle is VERY low...

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ps257b355c.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...psc5f076f4.jpg

If the action is where you want it and the guitar doesn't buzz, it's largely a make-work project. In that case, I'd leave it alone unless you want to do it just for the sake of having the experience. There is no guarantee that added string height is going to "improve" the tone in proportion to the effort required to do it.

Oh, I would like to lower the action a little, higher up on the neck. Open chords are fine, but the action gets a a little high around the 7th fret up.....

And I know there's kind of a debate about how much string height plays in tone production.... right now the Low E is 7/16" from the top... which seems to be right in the ballpark of the "accepted" 1/2" recommendation.... Improving the tone is part of the goal (altho the guitar has a nice tone already... but if I'm going to do this to lower the action, improved tone would be a nice side benefit)

So in a nut shell, I determined the amount I needed to remove from the heel and marked it, applied masking tape around the affected area, undid the 2 bolts, and cut the heel systematically with 180-grit sand paper, put the bolts back, shimmed the saddle temporarily by 1,5mm, restrung and voila!!! - 2 hours later I have a great playable guitar again and it sounds terrific. It is amazing what a remarkable difference additional saddle height makes to tone, response and volume, and still have the benefit of a better action at the 12th fret.

This is also Taylors current recommended procedure for dealing with their older instruments. It is not that difficult especially compared to say a reset on a Gibson. One down fall that is that the fretboard extension which stays glued to the top will no longer be on line with the rest of the fretboard. The extra fall off can be very noticeable, especially on cutaways.

See, that's why I ask here.... because I would not have considered that, it makes sense tho. Thanks. I think I'd still like to give it a try, despite the fact it's a cutaway, I rarely venture beyond the 15th fret anyway...

There is not really a debate. There is a reality of bridge/saddle combined height and its resultant torque on the bridge and how this torque change affects the sound. But this height/torque change must be taken in consideration not as a single determining factor, but as one of many factors including the soundboard construction (bracing design & thicknesses, and top design & thicknesses).

A very good example because there are well defined differences that have been implemented for 200 years is the difference between a classical and flamenco guitar. A flamenco will often have a bridge/saddle with a total height of anywhere from 7.5-9.0mm, whereas a classical will generally have a combined height of 10-12mm. The bracing patterns and thicknesses are adjusted to compensate and work well with the resulting bridge torque. Flamenco guitar braces tend to be about 4 to 5mm tall, whereas classical braces will tend to be about 6-7mm tall. The classical soundboard then has more mass and more torque. Notes tend to generate a little slower but have more sustain and perceived "body" in the note, whereas flamenco guitars will tend to generate more quickly but dissipate more quickly - ie: less sustain but more percussive attack.

Builders of steel string guitars either understand these relationships or don't. If they understand the relationships, then they are much more empowered to create a guitar with the characteristics they want.

Also, it should be said that there is a "sweet spot" within which changing the string height a mm or so won't have much if any noticeable audible change in the tone. Beyond this, however, you will get noticeable tonal change. But it isn't really a debate, just people expressing their understanding in greater or lesser degrees.

LOL. I thought that's what a debate WAS.

I would not worry about the height above the top as that is of no consequence. Measure the height from the top of the 12th fret to the bottom of the two E strings. Low E i like 3/32 and high E 2/32 or slightly more on each depending on your playing style. If you fall into this range i would leave it alone as it looks like you have enough downward pressure on your saddle and you don't want more than 1/2 of the entire saddle above the slot.

Most of the threads I've seen on the Walden neck joint refer to neck resets done with the fretboard extension left glued in place. Works fine, but I needed to get mine all the way apart, so I'm adding some info and pictures to this thread:

I have a Walden SupraNatura G1070 S/N 040251. It got in a wreck so I took it part to assess the damage. NOTE: The neck joint fasteners are two press-fit upper steel pins, plus two bolts, plus the glue joint at the fretboard extension. I heated the fretboard extension for 10 minutes - this has historically been enough to defeat the fretboard extension glue bond for me (on about 50 Martin guitars, a few Guilds, and too many generic others to count). The heat did not change the glue bond here, so you can see I actually ended up cutting it with a thin knife. Perhaps more heat or time would defeat the bond. The small steel pins you see here are not glued in - they are nicely press fit. 1. Remove the paper label or wood cover over the interior neck bolts. 2. Remove the two neck bolts. 3. Separate the joint between the top and the fretboard extension. 4. The only way to remove the neck is to firmly pull it straight out and away from the two steel pins. I had to wiggle the joint a bit while pulling to remove my neck.

https://i.imgur.com/2JDjeZM.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/IL7dp86.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/IkiR6qq.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/BFPfQ87.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/pVMNsCu.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/LG6qP08.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/EgHZJFI.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/juCvKSS.jpg

H165
Did you change the angle of your neck? (or on the other guitars you worked on). Doesn't the neck extension rise above the top of the guitar? How do you handle that?
thanks

The typical way to handle that is to glue it down if there's hardly any gap, or shim the extension and glue it down if there's a decent gap. If you glue it down without an extension, and there's now a hump at the 14th fret or so, then it's my understanding a luthier would pull the frets in the affected area, plane the fretboard flat, refinish as needed, and reinstall the frets.

I remain steadfast, the magic number for the height from soundboard to the top of the saddle is 1/2". All my acoustics have this measurement pretty much right on the money.