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-   -   000 14fret shortscale acoustic build. (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=522354)

FPerezRoig 12-21-2018 07:16 AM

Thanks!
Look what I just built, not very professional, but seems to work just fine.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...psgacbkzrp.png

https://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e...pstpehmjxp.png

It's a tube made of inox steel with a 200w halogen bulb and ceramic socket inside, mounted on a piece of spruce.

Still have to practice a little before bending the real sides of the guitar. ¿How much do you soak rosewood before bending? I tried with a piece of RW I got, and sprayed it generously with water on both sides, then started bending and when the wood dried, sprayed again , continued bending and so on until the wood was bent to the desired angle.

Seemed to work fine, but it wasn't a quick task.

BradHall 12-21-2018 10:28 AM

From advice I learned here I put a folded paper towel, the blue shop type, on the pipe. I spray water on the towel and move the sides over it, respraying as it steams off. I wonder if your pipe might be more effective if you closed the open end and just lest a vent hole.

FPerezRoig 12-21-2018 11:08 AM

Thanks Bradhall,
Maybe the picture is misleading but the pipe is closed. The second pic I uploaded only to show what is there in the inside.

We don't have this blue paper towels here in Spain, hope normal kitchen paper towel will do just fine.
I'll give it a try!!

Fran

printer2 12-22-2018 10:52 AM

I use a shop rag on the pipe, I think the important part is the blue color though. ;)

https://i.imgur.com/1DARY98.jpg?1

Yes it is not necessarily a fast process but you do get better with more practice.

FPerezRoig 12-22-2018 11:52 AM

Hehehe I ended up using a wet kitchen rag, spanish yellow :), and only sprayed but a little water on the wood. I bent this so far:

https://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e...psx2prlw5r.png

Unfortunately, I messed things up a little, this is proving to be a real challenge.

https://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e...psaschdtbw.png

I got this crack on a couple places, always on the edge of the wood. I might be able to save the side, though, don't you think? By gluing with cyanocrylate after the whole side is bent. At the end of the day, the edge of the sides is going to be routed to house the binding.

Why could be the cause of these cracks? To be honest, I'm guessing the pipe is not getting hot enough, and that is the reason why I'm better not wetting the wood to much, and it takes that long to being able to start bending.

I'm placing the hot pipe vertically, and looking at Fred's picture, it seems like a better idea to place it horizontally, in order to keep the sides perpendicular to the pipe. Thanks for that!

Fran

JonWint 12-22-2018 12:28 PM

How thick is it?

Looks twice too thick.

FPerezRoig 12-22-2018 12:57 PM

It's 2.5mm thick, around 0.098 inch.
Is it too thick? My plans state 2.2mm for the sides, so I made them a tad thicker so it ended up 2.2mm after sanding etc.

JonWint 12-22-2018 01:16 PM

I just checked some thicknessed RW I have from Martin which is 0.065" and 0.075".

BradHall 12-22-2018 01:42 PM

Yes, thicker wood, and especially high oil content wood like EIR, are more prone to cracking along grain lines. Not enough heat, bending too quickly with too much force make it more likely. Once you get a few under your belt it becomes easier to let the wood tell you how much pressure is needed. I find bending over a pipe one of the most enjoyable parts of the build ( most of the time). Certain woods like Maroke just don't cooperate with me.

FPerezRoig 12-22-2018 02:30 PM

Cheers mates,
I'll swap the 200w bulb to a more powerful one, and see if it helps.
Guess I just need some patience and practice to get this right.

In case I mess the sides up completely, I'll thickness the next sides somewhat thinner to make work easier.

Fran

FPerezRoig 01-16-2019 08:44 AM

Hi! The guitar is coming along nicely. With the top and back finished, and sides bent I decided to start with the neck.
Wondered if you could shed some light on this... please!!

I feel like I'm cheating a little, for I ordered a precarved neck and slotted fingerboard from lmii to make things easier. :)

https://i.imgur.com/cPcetkQ.jpg

The neck specs are:

14 frets to body
24.9" scale length
Width at the nut - 1.875"
Width at 14th fret - 2.3"

Started shaping the headstock with success.
However, I would like to mod my neck to 1 11/16 inch nut width, 2 1/8 inch witdh at 12th fret... Is this feasible? What would be the preferred way to do th¡s? I would probably have to buy some tools for this, and want to make sure I get the right ones.

There are some holes drilled on the fingerboard side of the neck. What is the purpose of these holes? They look too big to be used with some pins drilled through the fret slots while gluing the fingerboard in place.

On the other hand, this is the fingerboard I ordered:

https://i.imgur.com/S3n2U6e.jpg

Scale Length: 24.9" scale length
Number of Fret Slots: 20 fret slots
Radius: 16" radius

From Lmii : "The boards are slotted with a nut slot offset to correct for fret saw blade kerf for compensation purposes so that the bridge edge of the slot is at true zero. "

I can't understand what they actually mean... Are they referring to the extra piece of fingerboard before the first slot? Should I remove this? I read a little about true-zero nut slots, but I'm not sure I understand how things work here.

ruby50 01-16-2019 09:18 AM

You will get more answers, and, as usual, ask 10 luthiers a question and you will get 11 answers, but here is my take.

From Lmii : "The boards are slotted with a nut slot offset to correct for fret saw blade kerf for compensation purposes so that the bridge edge of the slot is at true zero. "

For the fret slots at, say .022" wide, the center of the slot is the point where the string touches the top of the fret, so the edges of the slot are each .011" from that point. At the nut, the cut is moved a bit long so that the center of the old slot is now the edge of the new slot where the nut starts.

As for carving - mount the fretboard with the pins thorough the fret slots so you can always get it on in the same place repeatably. Some glue it on and work to it. Making a template out of clear plexiglass scraps from the hardware store, or even s shirt cardboard, helps get the right shape - make one for the first fret and for the 9th-11th fret depending on how many frets clear you will be using. There is plenty of guidance on the innerweb on duplicating a neck you have.

Since the nut and 12th fret width are only a little wide and there will be very little work to do to take it all down to your spec, perhaps a course file, followed by a scraper would be all you need. Always start in the center to get the thickness right, then when it is straight from end to end, draw a pencil line down it and don't ever remove that pencil line. I find it easiest to draw pencil lines down the length of the neck where I will be shaping the sides to help figure out where I am removing wood - work a little, then redraw the lines while leaving that center line. Try working with facets - flat surfaces - down the length of the neck to get close with the file, then just a little file work between facets to more round it, then some scraper work followed by sandpaper held in the palm of the hand.

Good luck

Ed

JonWint 01-16-2019 09:34 AM

Ed's description is how I understand it. You can convince yourself by measuring from bridge-side edge of slot to center of 1st fret slot and comparing to the calculated distance.

charles Tauber 01-16-2019 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruby50 (Post 5950085)
You will get more answers, and, as usual, ask 10 luthiers a question and you will get 11 answers, but here is my take.

From Lmii : "The boards are slotted with a nut slot offset to correct for fret saw blade kerf for compensation purposes so that the bridge edge of the slot is at true zero. "

For the fret slots at, say .022" wide, the center of the slot is the point where the string touches the top of the fret, so the edges of the slot are each .011" from that point. At the nut, the cut is moved a bit long so that the center of the old slot is now the edge of the new slot where the nut starts.

Another way of stating it is as follows. The saw cuts are placed at the centre of the fret positions. If the same is done for the end of the fingerboard, centering the saw cut on the zero position, the fingerboard will be shortened by 1/2 the saw cut, .011". LMII has moved the saw cut for the nut so that the edge, rather than the centre, of the saw cut is at zero.

Many makers, large and small, do not do that. Instead using that .011" shortening of the distance from nut to first fret as a small amount of nut compensation. That is my preference. Some makers shorten that distance by as much as .030" or so to provide greater compensation at the nut. Some will compensate each string at the nut as each string dictates, rather than a uniform amount. That produces a stepped compensated nut.

FPerezRoig 01-18-2019 08:38 AM

Thank you guys!
Now I understand :up:

I'm installing the truss rod as we speak, and will start carving the neck really soon.
I've got average sized hands with not very thin fingers and like to use my thumb a lot to fret the E string , what neck profile would you recommend ?? I'm thinking about a modified low oval, but I'm no expert ... is it a good choice with a 1 11/16 neck? My current acoustic is a Lakewood M14, whose neck feels too thick and wide for my taste, which is the main reason why I'd like to sell it. I'm probably too used to fender electric guitars and would love a neck that feels somehow like an electric.

charles Tauber 01-18-2019 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPerezRoig (Post 5952144)
would love a neck that feels somehow like an electric.

Copy an electric neck that you like. Ensure, however, that the depth will work with your chosen truss rod (i.e. enough wood surrounding the truss rod). If the profile is small enough, you might consider reinforcing the neck to make it stiffer. Some narrow/thin mahogany necks on some instruments are like whammy bars: they move all over the place, making accurate intonation wishful thinking.

FPerezRoig 01-20-2019 03:32 PM

Thanks Charles !! That sounds great, will do.

Cheers,
Fran

mirwa 08-24-2019 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Abrahamson (Post 5850872)
Looking forward to the "after" photo.��

Forgot all about this one, was asked for a photo as well vee email.

Before - During and after

http://www.mirwa.com.au/images/000.15M.JPG

mirwa 08-24-2019 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPerezRoig (Post 5954632)
Cheers,
Fran

How is your build going, any new photos?

Steve

FPerezRoig 09-25-2019 04:34 AM

Wow looking great Mirwa.
I had my first son, and been kinda busy lately. Had to stop working on the guitar for a while, but I'm finally back :)

Got the chance of gluing the kerfing and blocks to the sides, and closed the box. I also carved the neck to the profile I liked, and installed the truss rod.

Can't wait to routing the binding channels, and glue the bindings and purflings in place.
I will be using a maple binding with some b/w strips and abalone purflings.

I'm really pleased with the way this is turning out. Closing the box was tricky, since braces go through the sides, and wanted to get a tight fit through the kerfing.

Looking forward to posting some pictures of the process as soon as I get back home.

Cheers,
Fran

FPerezRoig 12-20-2019 05:13 AM

Season's greetings to all!

Just a quick update on my build with some pictures.
I routed the binding channels and bent the maple bindings. It was tricky to get them bent, for they needed much more moisture than the rosewood sides to prevent splitting.

Hope you like how it looks.

https://fotos-22nf.s3-eu-west-1.amaz...110420_800.jpg
https://fotos-22nf.s3-eu-west-1.amaz...191024_327.jpg
https://fotos-22nf.s3-eu-west-1.amaz...122240_365.jpg
https://fotos-22nf.s3-eu-west-1.amaz...122240_366.jpg
https://fotos-22nf.s3-eu-west-1.amaz...122240_367.jpg

I'm about to glue the bindings in place with some abalone strips and purflings.
Think I'll apply shellac first, and once all bindings and purfligs are fitted in place,use thin CA glue like I did when gluing the rosette. The thing is the bindings need quite some pressure on the guitar's waist to fit perfectly into the binding channel.

How could I fix the binding in place in that area prior to applying the CA glue? Using tape would not seem enough. Any advice?

Thank you!!
Fran

FPerezRoig 12-20-2019 05:43 AM

And the neck:

https://fotos-22nf.s3-eu-west-1.amaz...160144_001.jpg
https://fotos-22nf.s3-eu-west-1.amaz...160143_999.jpg

JonWint 12-20-2019 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPerezRoig (Post 6244194)
Just a quick update on my build with some pictures.
I routed the binding channels and bent the maple bindings. It was tricky to get them bent, for they needed much more moisture than the rosewood sides to prevent splitting.

How could I fix the binding in place in that area prior to applying the CA glue? Using tape would not seem enough. Any advice?

Are you using solid abalone or Zipflex? Solid abalone is usually installed after the balance of binding/purfling is glued with a temporary plastic spacer strip. Wood binding adheres great with wood glue as long as all of the other purfling is wood. Then use CA with the Zipflex.

With Zipflex I use elastic bands tape. But you need to be careful because CA also sticks to the bands. Waxed paper solves that problem.

Work your way around the perimeter with the CA. Move the bands laterally as you move along. Be sure that the Zipflex surface is below the finished surface and covered with CA. The abalone is only a few mils thick and could be scraped off if too high.

This is Ziplex:

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/cAbe3TU.jpg[/IMG]

Rudy4 12-20-2019 09:47 AM

I'm too late to help on the bridge plate question, but if it's any help for anyone else here's a quick shot of a small body I'm doing just prior to closing the box.

When I get done with this one I intend to post the CAD print of the entire instrument. It's a bit unusual as an all mahogany 14 fret with deep unbound body with an arm bevel. It's slightly smaller than a 00, but not "parlor-sized". X brace and tone bars are 5/16" wide but relatively short, so it's not as over-braced as it might appear.

https://i.imgur.com/f5hjmfG.jpg

FPerezRoig 12-22-2019 08:17 AM

Thank you guys,

Yes I'm using zipflex, great tips JonWint! I'll further bend the binding strips to better fit the routed channels and use your elastic bands and wax paper method.

It'll be great to have that cad drawing Ruy4, thanks for sharing.

FPerezRoig 01-27-2020 10:42 AM

Bindings and zipflex are ready to be glued, but I'm still having a hard time cutting the purflings to size :(

I guess I'll have to do this using handtools, since I don't own a bandsaw.
Purflings are made from black-white-black vulcanised fibre sheets (0.5mm thick). 1m length, 10 mm width.

Purfling channels are about 4mm deep, so I need to cut my 10mm purflings into two pieces of roughly 5mm which could be easily scraped once glued.

Tried with a veneer saw, but purflings are 1,5mm thick and the saw gets stuck after cutting around 1mm.

How would you do that without a band saw? Tried different approaches but the resulting cut was not accurate enough and I ended up having two purflings of irregular width.

It would be great to hear your advice, can't wait to finishing the body to further working on the neck.

charles Tauber 01-27-2020 09:04 PM

I’m not sure that I’ve fully understood the issue you are having. Assuming I have ...

I buy wood veneer and fiber sheets to make my own purfling. I cut single strips, one at a time by placing a long straight edge on the sheet of veneer or fiber. I then use a sharp knife to cut against the straight edge. It works quite well and doesn’t take much time.

FPerezRoig 01-28-2020 09:14 AM

Thanks charles, sorry I couldn't explain this too well.

In my scenario fibre sheets are already glued together, making a complete purfling strip of 10mm x 1000mm x 1.5mm

I need to cut this strip into two 5mm x 1000mm x 1.5mm smaller strips.

If the fibre sheets were not glued, I could easily cut them with my veneer saw and straight edge, or even with some scissors, but since they are already glued, the strip is too thick for the veneer saw to cut that deep.
Tried with a sharp marking knife too, but again the strip was too thick to be cut.

FPerezRoig 03-18-2020 12:46 PM

Hi guys,
Got some time to work on the guitar again.
I eventually ended up building this small jig for cutting my purflings to size. It worked great!

https://fotos-22nf.s3-eu-west-1.amaz...318_193336.jpg

https://fotos-22nf.s3-eu-west-1.amaz...318_193410.jpg

Now, all bindings and purflings are bent and cut. I just test fitted them in place.

https://fotos-22nf.s3-eu-west-1.amaz...318_193523.jpg

I'll be gluing the back bindings using titebond, since there is no abalone involved, and front bindings/purflings will be glued using CA glue.

Hopefully I make no big mistakes, can't wait to finishing the body.

GeoffStGermaine 03-19-2020 05:36 AM

That's a beautiful guitar you have coming along! Looking forward to seeing more.


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