DGBDGB for Beginners - Thoughts?

[HudsDad]

Earlier this week, I began taking lessons from an instructor who primarily uses Open G tuning. While I was waiting for my lesson, he was finishing up a lesson with a young boy...probably 10-12 years old. When the boy left, he waved me in and began re-tuning his guitar to DGDGBD for our lesson.

He said he uses DGBDGB tuning (which he called Open G/Drop D) for all his beginners because it's easy for them to quickly learn simple songs since several major chords are simply barre chords as you go down the fretboard. He said most beginners just want to learn a few songs and don't really care about the music theory behind them.

I didn't think much about it at the time, but when I got home, I began to think that might be a case of "short-term gain, long-term loss" for these students because they would be very limited by this tuning as they progressed in skill and knowledge.

Am I correct in my assumptions or am I simply blind to his genius?

[Allman_Fan]

Do you think Open G (DGDGBD) "might be a case of "short-term gain, long-term loss" for these students because they would be very limited by this tuning as they progressed in skill and knowledge."

If not, why not?

[HudsDad]

Originally Posted by Allman_Fan

Do you think Open G (DGDGBD) "might be a case of "short-term gain, long-term loss" for these students because they would be very limited by this tuning as they progressed in skill and knowledge."

If not, why not?

Does this mean you don't know the answer to my question?

I'm not a beginner and he doesn't use DGDGBD tuning with his beginning students, so I don't see how your inquiry is relevant to my my original post.

[shawlie]

It will probably teach people to pick, strum, hammer-on, etc. just as well as using standard tuning. And the chords in open G, of course.

But it does seem a little limited to me - I assume he does go on to take a look at standard tuning? Or other open tunings?

But you don't need a lot of theory to learn chords in standard, either, of course (if that is his explanation for using open G) - the chords just might take more fingers to fret them and be a bit more difficult (which is of course the whole problem when learning guitar). But you don't need to know the theory behind it, per se.

I don't know, I wouldn't want a teacher who only taught in open G, unless I only wanted to learn open G. But if his students are happy, that's very important.

[HudsDad]

Originally Posted by shawlie

But it does seem a little limited to me - I assume he does go on to take a look at standard tuning? Or other open tunings?

No, he doesn't teach standard tuning because he says he hasn't used it enough to feel comfortable teaching others. He learned guitar on Open G forty years ago and never really strayed from it since. He even played with John Hammond for a few years in the early 70's, so I guess it works for him. I started lessons with him just because I was interested in learning more about alternate tunings and he's the only guy around here who teaches anything other than standard.

He found a lot of beginners have problems learning Open G, so he started using the DGBDGB tuning to speed them up. I haven't talked to any of his other students to see if they agree with my thoughts, but I wondered if they would be at a disadvantage later since the guitar world primarily revolves around EADGBE and alternate tunings seem to be a bit more specialized.

[Doug Young]

There are a number of people who advocate using alternate tunings to teach beginners. DADGAD works well, too, with 1 finger chords. A big stumbling block for beginners is the difficulty of fingering and changing the basic chords in standard. Lots of beginners give up because it hurts their fingers, or they just can't change chords fast enough and it doesn't sound like music. Using an approach that makes it simple and easy provides fast gratification and gets the students excited about the guitar because they can create something that sounds good fast. In theory, they then go from there.

Does it work? No idea, but decades later, I can still remember how hard it was to finger a C chord at first, let alone a barre F, so I suspect it was traumatic at the time :-)

[rick-slo]

IMO go with standard tuning for beginners to learn chording shapes and fingerings. It kind of bothers me this teacher never bothered to learn to play in standard tuning. That's rather limited.

[Allman_Fan]

Originally Posted by HudsDad

Does this mean you don't know the answer to my question?

I'm not a beginner and he doesn't use DGDGBD tuning with his beginning students, so I don't see how your inquiry is relevant to my my original post.

So was your question is about beginners and (any) open tuning(s)?
I thought your question was about one open tuning versus another.

[shawlie]

Originally Posted by HudsDad

No, he doesn't teach standard tuning because he says he hasn't used it enough to feel comfortable teaching others. He learned guitar on Open G forty years ago and never really strayed from it since. He even played with John Hammond for a few years in the early 70's, so I guess it works for him. I started lessons with him just because I was interested in learning more about alternate tunings and he's the only guy around here who teaches anything other than standard.

For you, it sounds like a great teacher and a good oppertunity to learn what you want. I have no problem with players who specialize in a certain tuning. Like in the (clawhammer) banjo world, there are a lot of tunes in open G, C or "sawmill", (depending on how high you tune, of course) but to call any one of the many, many tunings they use "standard" is a little tough. There's so many tunings, some just for one song.

I just wonder, though, when the students progress and the one song they "really want to learn" is not quite the same sounding as the radio/tv/youtube version (well, however people listen to music these days, lots of options) because of the different voicings from the open tuning, if they will be dissapointed.

But the man is allowed to teach the way he wants, of course (and a specialist like that sounds like a nice teacher - if you know what he's planning on teaching you).

[Allman_Fan]

I can't recall ever meeting anyone who was taught this way. I've often thought this might be a good way for folks to start out. Then, if they decided to go on, most would probably want to learn standard. Either the teacher could help them out, or in this case, perhaps, lead them to someone who could.

But back to (what I thought) was the original point. Both of these tunings AND standard tuning contain the DGB strings (really, the "relativity" of 5-1-3 is what is important). So, there will be patterns that transfer from one tuning to another . . . not all is lost!

Originally Posted by HudsDad

I began to think that might be a case of "short-term gain, long-term loss" for these students because they would be very limited by this tuning as they progressed in skill and knowledge.

Am I correct in my assumptions or am I simply blind to his genius?

Hi,
Open G tuning is a great tuning to start off with! Get some chord charts here

No you are not correct and yes you must be blind... try to keep an open mind.

[HudsDad]

Originally Posted by HarleySpirit

Hi,
Open G tuning is a great tuning to start off with! Get some chord charts here

No you are not correct and yes you must be blind... try to keep an open mind.

I agree that Open G (DGDGBD) seems fairly versatile, but I'm talking about DGBDGB. I plugged it into my chord generator and I'm not impressed.

[dijomaja]

I taught guitar for a long time and now I'm working as a music therapist for kids with disabilities. There's some evidence that open G tuning (no need to add "..dropped D"; the 'D' is in the G chord anyway) can work with young kids and it helps for those with disabilities but I wouldn't start that way with anyone else. It might work if you just wanted to strum a few chords and sing some simple songs but it's pretty limited in terms of playing any standard repertoire.

There are players who use DADGAD exclusively (or nearly) and they do very nicely (Pierre Bensusan comes to mind). If you plan on going your own way with an E-Z chording system that might work better. I never rule out exploring new approaches but, if you're serious about guitar you may not want to limit yourself so early on.

Originally Posted by dijomaja

It might work if you just wanted to strum a few chords and sing some simple songs but it's pretty limited in terms of playing any standard repertoire.

Hi,
Why is it that some people think Open G is more limited than other tunings. Its really not.. if you dig in and work with this tuning. As a matter of fact, all tunings have their limitations. That's why we turn to a variety of ways to tune the guitar, and keep it interesting.
As to the original poster's tuning question... instead of using a chord generator, try tuning your guitar to your posted tuning (which by the way, is nowhere near "open g"???) without breaking a string.
I really think your instructor was refering to the "real" open g tuning, and I don't believe the other would work... except maybe for some kind of lap steel work.

[HudsDad]

Originally Posted by HarleySpirit

Hi,
As to the original poster's tuning question... instead of using a chord generator, try tuning your guitar to your posted tuning (which by the way, is nowhere near "open g"???) without breaking a string.
I really think your instructor was refering to the "real" open g tuning, and I don't believe the other would work... except maybe for some kind of lap steel work.

At the end of my lesson (which was conducted in Open G - DGDGBD), I asked him to show me the DGBDGB tuning. I had no issues tuning my Larrivee and we noodled around with it for a few minutes. Barre chords at the 2, 4, 5, 7, and 9 frets are A, B, C, D and E chords respectively.

As mentioned, it works for simple songs...and maybe great for slide guitar, but I'm not convinced it's that beneficial for all beginners. But, like I said, I haven't talked to any of his other students about it.