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  #1  
Old 09-09-2017, 10:13 PM
mesa mesa is offline
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Default 2017 CITES Rosewood Ban

I didn't realize that there was CITES ban on all rosewood until i visited Simons website recently. I have two guitars, one with Kingwood B/S and Madagascar B/S. I understand the ban doesn't apply for instruments carried for personal use while travel internationally.

My wife and I are considering moving back to Sweden when I retire and I'm not sure what would be required. Anyone have any experience with this?

Thanks!

curt
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Old 09-09-2017, 10:22 PM
Simon Fay Simon Fay is offline
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Hi Curt,
The ban applies to new instrument sales. If you guys move back to Sweden look into getting a "Guitar Passport". Maybe someone will come along and post some links in this thread. If not, give me a call sometime and I'll help you figure out what paperwork you need.
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Old 09-10-2017, 05:02 AM
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Hi Curt,

In July I hand-carried my new Maddie rosewood Wingert from LA to Australia via Germany and The Netherlands and had no problems. In case I was asked about it Kathy printed out a page that listed all the woods and their weights and I carried that with me but no one asked for it at any stage or even looked at the guitar.

And here is a link Kathy sent me that explains the ability to hand carry a personal guitar - https://reverb.com/news/new-cites-re...sewood-species

Hope that helps,
Col
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Old 09-10-2017, 07:57 AM
Hasbro Hasbro is offline
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A passport for guitars? What has the bureaucracy come to! How many man hours chase this crap....
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Old 09-10-2017, 08:08 AM
HHP HHP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasbro View Post
A passport for guitars? What has the bureaucracy come to! How many man hours chase this crap....
That would seem to be the main goal.
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Old 09-10-2017, 08:18 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasbro View Post
A passport for guitars? What has the bureaucracy come to! How many man hours chase this crap....
It's hardly news now Hasbro,we've been discussing this for months.

This is an International (CITES) law to save dalbergia from certain areas - specifically Brazil, and Madagascar.

Trouble is it is difficult for Customs folk to identify the source so ALL dalbergia is now part of the law.
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Old 09-10-2017, 12:11 PM
Howard Klepper Howard Klepper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mesa View Post
I didn't realize that there was CITES ban on all rosewood until i visited Simons website recently. I have two guitars, one with Kingwood B/S and Madagascar B/S. I understand the ban doesn't apply for instruments carried for personal use while travel internationally.

My wife and I are considering moving back to Sweden when I retire and I'm not sure what would be required. Anyone have any experience with this?

Thanks!

curt
There is no ban. There are new regulations that affect commercial international shipments. None of this has any effect on you bringing your guitars to Sweden. You need no guitar passport. Eschew obfuscation and disregard alien orders.

Glad you are back on the forum.
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Old 09-10-2017, 01:01 PM
Simon Fay Simon Fay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Klepper View Post
There is no ban. There are new regulations that affect commercial international shipments. None of this has any effect on you bringing your guitars to Sweden. You need no guitar passport. Eschew obfuscation and disregard alien orders.

Glad you are back on the forum.
Howard, from what I've read -- international sales of guitars containing Rosewood without CITES II documentation are now prohibited. It may not be a universal ban without any exceptions but it seems to me that it is an acceptable word to use in this context. In terms of a guitar passport, it also seems that when dealing with fairly expensive instruments, it makes sense to err on the side of caution. It may very well be the case that no documentation will be needed for traveling with personal instruments but the guitar passport seems like a smart pathway if you're trying to play it safe.

For anybody reading, Howard is probably far more informed than me about the new Rosewood regulations - so I defer to his knowledge and recommendation on this topic.


Now excuse me while I return to resting atop my tonewood stash to keep Hurricane Irma from blowing it away.
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Last edited by Simon Fay; 09-10-2017 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 09-10-2017, 02:28 PM
JoeCharter JoeCharter is offline
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I won't quote him publicly, but according to someone (who I fully trust) who does this very often, does this for a living and plays it safe at all times, you don't need any paperwork for your personal instrument.
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  #10  
Old 09-10-2017, 03:12 PM
Howard Klepper Howard Klepper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Fay View Post
Howard, from what I've read -- international sales of guitars containing Rosewood without CITES II documentation are now prohibited. It may not be a universal ban without any exceptions but it seems to me that it is an acceptable word to use in this context. In terms of a guitar passport, it also seems that when dealing with fairly expensive instruments, it makes sense to err on the side of caution. It may very well be the case that no documentation will be needed for traveling with personal instruments but the guitar passport seems like a smart pathway if you're trying to play it safe.

For anybody reading, Howard is probably far more informed than me about the new Rosewood regulations - so I defer to his knowledge and recommendation on this topic.


Now excuse me while I return to resting atop my tonewood stash to keep Hurricane Irma from blowing it away.
I don't see much point in semantic arguments, Simon, but using the word "ban" for this has misled and frightened a lot of people. Saying it's a ban because you need the proper permit for a commercial shipment is like saying international travel is banned because you need a visa to enter a foreign country.

I am not the expert on CITES or other laws involving tonewood and guitars. I just commented because I see that the word "ban" is causing unnecessary grief.
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Last edited by Howard Klepper; 09-10-2017 at 03:47 PM.
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  #11  
Old 09-10-2017, 05:13 PM
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Halcyon/Tinker Halcyon/Tinker is offline
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My own experiences have been tedious but not problematic. I have received every permit I have applied for, and every shipment needing CITES has gone through, knock on wood.

I do find it somewhat silly overall in that the same guitar sent as a gift can go with no papers, but as a sale would require a permit. But hey...

It's just more paperwork and hoopjumping at the border.
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Old 09-10-2017, 07:11 PM
mesa mesa is offline
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Thanks folks, really appreciate it.
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Old 09-10-2017, 07:13 PM
mesa mesa is offline
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Sorry double post!
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Old 09-12-2017, 07:31 PM
Simon Fay Simon Fay is offline
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Hi Howard,
I understand where you're coming from and that does make sense. I'll word things differently in the future. I personally haven't had any interaction with the new regulations but will need to so for a few upcoming international commissions that will incorporate Rosewood.
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  #15  
Old 09-12-2017, 08:30 PM
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I wonder how much trouble all those laminated EIR guitars will cause people at the borders? Or just a rosewood fretboard and bridge.
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