The Acoustic Guitar Forum  

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Amplification (Electrified!!!)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 05-30-2004, 01:18 PM
Steveh427 Steveh427 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: So Cal
Posts: 48
Default What are FRAPS?

I was reading up on Neil Young's setup and he says he uses stereo FRAPS in each acoustic guitar. Does anyone know what he's talking about?????

I'm considering getting a new Martin D-41 and am currently looking into a good pick up system. (I'm looking at the Highlander or the Element right now)
__________________
'06 Taylor GSRC
'03 Martin D-41
'02 Martin SPDC16RE Custom w/Fishman
'03 Gibson Les Paul Class 5 Custom
'01 Fender Amer. Std. Strat
Various keyboards and amps
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-30-2004, 01:33 PM
Chicago Sandy's Avatar
Chicago Sandy Chicago Sandy is offline
Dulcimer Diva
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: SW Coast of Lake Michigan
Posts: 15,143
Send a message via AIM to Chicago Sandy Send a message via Skype™ to Chicago Sandy
Default

A FRAP is an older-generation "contact pickup" soundboard transducer. Back in the day, you could mount them either internally or extenally with special double-sided tape or putty.
__________________
Sandy

http://www.sandyandina.com

-------------------------
Gramann Rapahannock,7Taylors,4Martins,2 Gibsons,2 Voyage-Air,Larrivee Parlour,Gretsch Way Out West,Fender P-J Bass & Mustang, Danelectro U2,Peavey fretless bass,dulcimers,autoharps, 5 & 6-string banjos, 6-string and std.mandolins

Life's too short to drink lousy coffee, write with ballpoint pens and play crummy guitars
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-30-2004, 01:53 PM
Steveh427 Steveh427 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: So Cal
Posts: 48
Default

I think I know what you're talking about. Kinda like the old Barcus-Berry stick-on pups back in the 70s?
__________________
'06 Taylor GSRC
'03 Martin D-41
'02 Martin SPDC16RE Custom w/Fishman
'03 Gibson Les Paul Class 5 Custom
'01 Fender Amer. Std. Strat
Various keyboards and amps
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-30-2004, 02:29 PM
Chicago Sandy's Avatar
Chicago Sandy Chicago Sandy is offline
Dulcimer Diva
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: SW Coast of Lake Michigan
Posts: 15,143
Send a message via AIM to Chicago Sandy Send a message via Skype™ to Chicago Sandy
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steveh427
I think I know what you're talking about. Kinda like the old Barcus-Berry stick-on pups back in the 70s?
Exactly--it was the rival brand to the Barcus-Berry "Hot Dot" and the predecessor to Barcus-Berry's little "sugarcube" model with 1/8" jack.
__________________
Sandy

http://www.sandyandina.com

-------------------------
Gramann Rapahannock,7Taylors,4Martins,2 Gibsons,2 Voyage-Air,Larrivee Parlour,Gretsch Way Out West,Fender P-J Bass & Mustang, Danelectro U2,Peavey fretless bass,dulcimers,autoharps, 5 & 6-string banjos, 6-string and std.mandolins

Life's too short to drink lousy coffee, write with ballpoint pens and play crummy guitars
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-30-2004, 02:36 PM
Randal_S's Avatar
Randal_S Randal_S is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Far from the Dime
Posts: 3,008
Default

Here's an intersting article (although a few years old) which was written by Rick Turner, who visits this forum occasionally. at least, I think it's the same Rick Turner, but I'm not 100% sure.

Anyway, the article mentions the FRAP system about half-way in.

http://www.acousticguitar.com/issues...fication.shtml

Here's a link to the Trance Audio website, which was mentioned as the modern successor to the FRAP. I've never seen one of these in the flesh, so all I can do is point you toward the website.

http://www.tranceaudio.com/
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-30-2004, 04:10 PM
Livingston's Avatar
Livingston Livingston is offline
Elyse & Jasmine's Dad
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 4,515
Default

The FRAP sound board transducer was the first pick up I ever purchased back in 1976. Back then, a lot of people were using the SM57 (or other dynamic mic) to amplify acoustic guitars. It was a real upgrade to install a FRAP, Barcus Berry or Bill Lawrence pick up in your guitar. You could actually move around a little instead of being glued to a mic. Helped reduce feedback too.
__________________
“Sometimes you have to play a long time to be able to play like yourself”
— Miles Davis.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-23-2010, 12:23 PM
andrewgorny andrewgorny is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1
Default

I got a FRAP in a 75 D-18, a Trance Amulet in a Rainsong WS1000, and the K&K Pure Western in an 84 D-28.

The FRAP is by far the nicest soundboard transducer still, but the tone it initially gives you is very frustrating to work with. Loads of high end. I blend it with a Sunrise (the Hedges trick) to fill out the lower end of the FRAP. But whatever "woody" means to you, you will hear that.

The Amulet is great. But it also takes some dialing. I think the two sensors is overkill as well. One sensor really doles out a lot of information, so buy the Amulet and an extra setup so you can put it in another guitar. It's also VERY expensive!!!

The K&K is cheap and sounds great right out of the box. Something about its design gives you pretty decent tap tone despite being installed so close to the bridge.

If you get a soundboard transducer, be smart and do not use the rubber cement or superglue that the pickups come with. Use hot glue because it will have a permanent hold but is still malleable enough to be removed with a razor blade if you want to install the pickup in another guitar.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-23-2010, 12:36 PM
wood nacho wood nacho is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Eastern Canada
Posts: 379
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewgorny View Post
I got a FRAP in a 75 D-18, a Trance Amulet in a Rainsong WS1000, and the K&K Pure Western in an 84 D-28.

The FRAP is by far the nicest soundboard transducer still, but the tone it initially gives you is very frustrating to work with. Loads of high end. I blend it with a Sunrise (the Hedges trick) to fill out the lower end of the FRAP. But whatever "woody" means to you, you will hear that.

The Amulet is great. But it also takes some dialing. I think the two sensors is overkill as well. One sensor really doles out a lot of information, so buy the Amulet and an extra setup so you can put it in another guitar. It's also VERY expensive!!!

The K&K is cheap and sounds great right out of the box. Something about its design gives you pretty decent tap tone despite being installed so close to the bridge.

If you get a soundboard transducer, be smart and do not use the rubber cement or superglue that the pickups come with. Use hot glue because it will have a permanent hold but is still malleable enough to be removed with a razor blade if you want to install the pickup in another guitar.
Andrew! I've seen you videos on Youtube. Wonderful playing!

I've never heard on installing K&K SBTs with hot glue. Have you done any sound comparison between a pickup installed with the glue K&K provides and just straight hot glue?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-23-2010, 01:44 PM
jseth jseth is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Corvallis, Oregon... "Heart of the Valley"...
Posts: 4,088
Default

I used a FRAP (flat response audio pickup) in the 70's, as well... Had a Barcus Berry, but upgraded to the FRAP... amplifying an acoustic guitar was quite an "iffy" proposition, back in the day. I had an MXR 10 band graphic eq that I would run the FRAP through - and that didn't quite cut it, but it was serviceable. I remember at one point, the other guitarist and I put our FRAPs on the soundboard of our pianist's little studio spinet, in order to have it "cut" in a full band setting... HILAIOUS reselts! We could get the piano volume loud enough, but it always sounded like it was coming from somewhere, far away; this echo-y, swimmy tone that was full of overtones and harmonics - our keyboardist would "play" with the tones and do some pretty unusual things, sonically...

I dumped the FRAP years ago, traded the MXR to a bassist for a 3 space Anvil case... kinda wish I still had it, even thoug I'm quite happy with my Fishman rig in both my 6 and 12 string guitars...

Unless you had to amplify an acoustic guitar in the late 60's / early 70's, you HAVE NO IDEA how far we've come. Granted, what's available today is not perfect, but it's all head and shoulders above what it used to be!

I think Doyle Dykes had the best take on amplfying acoustic guitars that I've heard... he said "Does it sound like my guitar, unplugged? Nope... but it is a VERY WORKABLE sound for performing..." - I think that's about the best you're gonna do, get something that you can make work for you... and almost ANYTHING works better than stuffing a Shure 565 into the soundhole through a Shure Vocal Master...!
__________________
"Turn up the Eagles, the neighbors are listening..."
"Everything You Did" (D. Fagen/W.Becker)
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Amplification (Electrified!!!)

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Loading

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=