The secret to bending wood by hand.

[PhilQ]

This week I had to bend three sets of sides. I don't use a bending machine as I like the process (and the romance) of doing it by hand with an iron. The two first sets were black walnut, and I didn't soak them beforehand this time. I just spritzed water as I went along and took my time. They ended up being my easiest, and best result so far. No cracks, and nice, smooth curves. I was pretty happy with myself.

Then I had to bend a set of Tasmanian Tiger Myrtle. Same thickness (around 2.2 mm). I went about it the same way, and I got a few cracks developing on the convex side when I bent the waist, and the lower bout. Had to stop and glue them back.

Question: Are there certain woods that bend better when soaked for a period of time beforehand? I used to systematically do that, but got a much better result with just spraying the walnut...

If so, is there a general rule? Does it have anything to do with the grain or pore structure? Hardness? The tiger myrtle is very smooth with no apparent pores vs the walnut, which is pretty open grained.

Any info would be great.

Thanks!

Phil

[mirwa]

Practice and experience is really the only way of knowing what to do with each type of wood, also add into this the cut of the wood, any figuring, grain direction, there is no real hard and fast rule

With myrtles, see a bit of tasmanian myrtles, I bent a full guitar set up last week, I dip into water and bend, repeat dip and bend

Steve

[dekutree64]

Straight grained black walnut is the easiest bending wood I know of. Not a good comparison for anything remotely difficult.

Some woods like to be dry, others spritzed, others with a wet paper towel on the pipe, some won't bend until they're on the verge of scorching... just gotta fiddle with each one until you find out what it wants.

[PhilQ]

And there I was, all proud of myself with the walnut... Easiest of all eh? Oh well!

Thanks for the input.

So Steve, for the myrtle you just dip and bend right away? No soaking? I did ok with most of it. Just the waist giving me a bit of trouble. It wasn't so much cracking as "delaminating", for lack of a more exact term. It's like a thin layer wanted to start peeling off on the convex side. I glued it back with TB3. Hopefully it'll withstand the next round of bending...

[jessupe]

2.2 is too thick imo for that species....often times the glue will soften and melt when exposed to the levels of heat that a bending iron puts off, so the sides may not make it, but you can always try...a bending strap in that location may help keep it together until you can move away from that area....to me it's not so much do "We" soak sides or not as much as what is the right thickness for the species and grain. 2.2 for flamed maple for example would most likely be fine...2.2 for Shedua on the other hand would probably be a problem 1.75mm would be better....yet in the same breath, the opposite could be true...building an intuition about these things comes with experience, all you can do is keep building...good luck

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by PhilQ

So Steve, for the myrtle you just dip and bend right away? No soaking?

Correct, heres a photo of the tassy myrtle I bent up last week, its for a left handed person, so tassie myrtle sides and back with a spruce top, 2.5mm thick

The trick is, there is no formula, you have too look at the wood and read it like its a book, through practice do we understand what can and cant be done, how it feels as your bending it and applying the heat






Steve

[murrmac123]

......................

[PhilQ]

Impressive!

[mirwa]

Nah not at all.

I posted the pics because as mentioned before, I only comment from my own experiences, be they right or wrong, they are right for me.

Just happened to bend a set up last week, so very fresh in my memory.

Look at the wood, feel it whilst your bending, do not force it or make it do what it does not want to do, if it does not want to bend, stop and have a good look over it, work out why rather than forcing it, you force it - you break it

If I am working a wood I am not to sure about, I start dry, then if that does not work, I spritz, if that does not work I dunk, if that does not work I soak, if that does not work then I steam box

Problem is the more water you use the more you wash out the colour of the wood

Steve

[PhilQ]

Originally Posted by mirwa

Nah not at all.

I posted the pics because as mentioned before, I only comment from my own experiences, be they right or wrong, they are right for me.

Just happened to bend a set up last week, so very fresh in my memory.

Look at the wood, feel it whilst your bending, do not force it or make it do what it does not want to do, if it does not want to bend, stop and have a good look over it, work out why rather than forcing it, you force it - you break it

If I am working a wood I am not to sure about, I start dry, then if that does not work, I spritz, if that does not work I dunk, if that does not work I soak, if that does not work then I steam box

Problem is the more water you use the more you wash out the colour of the wood

Steve

Well, I'm impressed. The curves are smooth and even. Thanks a lot for the tips and suggestions. Will re attempt the tiger myrtle this morning.

Wood binding is even worse for me. I can break 4 for every decent one I bend!

[LeightonBankes]

I only have a little experience bending wood. Before I bent my eastern walnut sides, I practiced with some white oak. I bent it into a 5" circle, a 2" radius waist and another 5" circle with no water, no tear-out and very very little scorching. Then I started on the walnut. It wasn't nearly as agreeable. Oak is the easiest wood to bend in my experience

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by PhilQ

This week I had to bend three sets of sides. I don't use a bending machine as I like the process (and the romance) of doing it by hand with an iron. The two first sets were black walnut, and I didn't soak them beforehand this time. I just spritzed water as I went along and took my time. They ended up being my easiest, and best result so far. No cracks, and nice, smooth curves. I was pretty happy with myself.

Then I had to bend a set of Tasmanian Tiger Myrtle. Same thickness (around 2.2 mm). I went about it the same way, and I got a few cracks developing on the convex side when I bent the waist, and the lower bout. Had to stop and glue them back.

Question: Are there certain woods that bend better when soaked for a period of time beforehand? I used to systematically do that, but got a much better result with just spraying the walnut...

If so, is there a general rule? Does it have anything to do with the grain or pore structure? Hardness? The tiger myrtle is very smooth with no apparent pores vs the walnut, which is pretty open grained.

Any info would be great.

Thanks!

Phil

Phil, FWIW, I tell my students to bend (flex) the wood away from the iron, then put it to the iron to fill the wood with heat. Then, with your flexing of the wood, there should be a point at which the wood is saturated with enough heat and it will "release" and bend.

Of course, I don't always flex first and put on the iron as it is flexed. But I do remember to flex the wood rather than pushing the wood onto the iron.

Also, even for tight waists, it is important to not focus only on the tightest or most central point of the curve. Focusing on the transitions into the curve can help the whole thing.

As for soaking... For sides and binding, I indeed usually soak the wood. Anywhere from 20min to an hour.

Hope this helps a bit...

[murrmac123]

Originally Posted by LeightonBankes

Oak is the easiest wood to bend in my experience

Not that it has any relevance to guitar construction, but the easiest wood to bend is universally recognised throughout the woodworking industry to be ash, with white oak probably a close second.

[PhilQ]

Originally Posted by Ned Milburn

Phil, FWIW, I tell my students to bend (flex) the wood away from the iron, then put it to the iron to fill the wood with heat. Then, with your flexing of the wood, there should be a point at which the wood is saturated with enough heat and it will "release" and bend.

Of course, I don't always flex first and put on the iron as it is flexed. But I do remember to flex the wood rather than pushing the wood onto the iron.

Also, even for tight waists, it is important to not focus only on the tightest or most central point of the curve. Focusing on the transitions into the curve can help the whole thing.

As for soaking... For sides and binding, I indeed usually soak the wood. Anywhere from 20min to an hour.

Hope this helps a bit...

That does help a lot, Ned. Thanks a bunch.

So you pre soak no matter the type of wood (even bindings)?

P

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by PhilQ

That does help a lot, Ned. Thanks a bunch.

So you pre soak no matter the type of wood (even bindings)?

P

Yes. ;-) B-)