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  #1  
Old 11-26-2015, 07:17 AM
k_russell k_russell is offline
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Default Guild Tuner Machines

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

If you changed tuning machines on an old (vintage?) Guild. What tuners did you use? Mine is a D40c built in 1981.

The original ones have Guild stamped on sealing plate (on the back). The folks at the Guild website have no information about models this old.

I would like to pull the replacement job off without drilling new holes. Only 2 of the 6 are a problem but I plan to change all 6.

Play a song or two for your friends today. Easier on the waistline than a third slice of pie.
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  #2  
Old 11-26-2015, 07:24 AM
Tony Burns Tony Burns is offline
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On my D-25ch ( 1979 vintage ) I used a set of Gotohs in chrome that i bought from Grizzly tools -they were around 30+ dollars ( better price than a few of the luthier supply places- but i bought them a couple of years ago )
They fit pretty close ( think i plugged the old holes - touched up with colored nail polish -and drilled one tiny micro hole with my dremel for each ) -The original tuners on the D-25ch were pretty cheap -inline low end. So that made a big difference in the guitars overall playability -and its sound ( heavier weight )
I have had in the past two different D-40's ( wish i kept the first one it was stellar )
I believe you can pay more for tuners ( own several other brands on other instruments ) but Gotoh and German made Schallers are my personal favorite.
I believe others have personal favorites -their are so many brands of tuners -thou most cost allot more !
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Last edited by Tony Burns; 11-26-2015 at 07:31 AM.
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  #3  
Old 11-26-2015, 10:09 AM
sshan25 sshan25 is offline
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Go to the Let's Talk Guild forum. Someone there will know.
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Old 11-26-2015, 10:58 AM
Br1ck Br1ck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sshan25 View Post
Go to the Let's Talk Guild forum. Someone there will know.
This is true
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  #5  
Old 11-26-2015, 12:16 PM
Dr. Spivey Dr. Spivey is offline
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Stewart-MacDonald has a diagram with measurements of every tuner they sell.

Like this:

http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_..._Pegheads.html
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  #6  
Old 11-26-2015, 12:30 PM
Dakota Red Dakota Red is offline
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I put Grover Imperials on my '79 D-40C, the barrel-holes need no modification. Also had a '78 D-40C which is now my son's - he didn't like the stock Guild tuners and I put a set of Rotomatics on that guitar, again, barrel-hole is the right size for these Grovers.

Not everyone likes the "big" Grovers these days but I find 'em just fine on these Guilds.
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  #7  
Old 11-26-2015, 01:21 PM
Brucebubs Brucebubs is offline
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Here's a link to the acoustic tuners at Stewmac;http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_...Solid_Peghead/
I bought 18:1 Grover Rotomatics late last year for a project and do NOT recommend them, too much slop in the gearing so I would agree with Tony Burns and suggest Gotoh or Schaller if you can find them to match the existing holes.
Each the Stewmac tuners have specifcations/measurements also on the page.
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2014 - RAS kit #3 Dreadnought
2014 - Alvarez ABT60 Baritone
2015 - Kittis RBJ-195 Jumbo
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2016 - RAS kit #4 Small Jumbo 'Nashville Tuned'
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  #8  
Old 11-26-2015, 02:51 PM
pieterh pieterh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k_russell View Post
Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

If you changed tuning machines on an old (vintage?) Guild. What tuners did you use? Mine is a D40c built in 1981.

The original ones have Guild stamped on sealing plate (on the back). The folks at the Guild website have no information about models this old.

I would like to pull the replacement job off without drilling new holes. Only 2 of the 6 are a problem but I plan to change all 6.

Play a song or two for your friends today. Easier on the waistline than a third slice of pie.
I removed the original tuners from my D35 and replaced them with open back Grover Sta-tites. Great looking tuners and the holes matched too. I did have to get new bushings as the new tuners were too big for the existing ones and too narrow for the ones that came with the tuners (I think, I may be remembering this the wrong way around). Grovers seem to have a reputation for inconsistency unless going for the open back ones. I've been very happy with mine and they are a massive improvement over the originals!

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  #9  
Old 11-26-2015, 03:06 PM
Bill Ashton Bill Ashton is offline
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Just a warning about Grover Stat-Tites...the new or "modern" ones are not bad at all, as used on the first series of Guild GAD guitars...but I remember hearing complaints about them and came upon a NOS set that must have been pretty old...yeah, not good like in 1966 Audition electric guitar (Japan) not good.
If you go with Sta-Tites, just make sure they are new new...
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Old 11-26-2015, 03:46 PM
Brucebubs Brucebubs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ashton View Post
Just a warning about Grover Stat-Tites...the new or "modern" ones are not bad at all, as used on the first series of Guild GAD guitars...but I remember hearing complaints about them and came upon a NOS set that must have been pretty old...yeah, not good like in 1966 Audition electric guitar (Japan) not good.
If you go with Sta-Tites, just make sure they are new new...
I ran a thread recently where I mentioned I bought new 18:1 Grover Rotomatics AND new Grover 18:1 Sta-tites for guitar projects.
The Rotomatics are disappointing but the Sta-Tites are excellent.
It's the older 14:1 Sta-Tites that have mixed reviews so look for the newer 18:1 ratio and yes, you'll need a set of 'reduction' bushes if you decide to use them and you will also need to drill a 2nd locating screw hole for each tuner.
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1972 - Takamine D-70
1980 - Morris B-50
2001 - Guild F-412
2009 - Martin Grand J12-40E Special
2011 - Martin JDP 2 #71/71
2014 - RAS kit #3 Dreadnought
2014 - Alvarez ABT60 Baritone
2015 - Kittis RBJ-195 Jumbo
2012 - Dan Dubowski#61
2016 - RAS kit #4 Small Jumbo 'Nashville Tuned'
2017 - Crimson SBG378HH bass.
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  #11  
Old 11-26-2015, 04:00 PM
ACOUSTICDEWD ACOUSTICDEWD is offline
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Love the grovers, but have had better experience with Gotoh. They've never failed me
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  #12  
Old 11-26-2015, 04:14 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k_russell View Post
Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

If you changed tuning machines on an old (vintage?) Guild. What tuners did you use? Mine is a D40c built in 1981.

The original ones have Guild stamped on sealing plate (on the back). The folks at the Guild website have no information about models this old.
If they don't have the bulbous cases of Grover Rotomatics, there's a good chance that they're either Schaller or Sperzel tuners. During that era both of those companies routinely etched guitar company logos on the back plates of their tuners.

Here's a tiny picture of the back of a 1980 Martin with Sperzel gears on it:



˚˚˚

Here's another tiny picture:



˚˚˚

Neither of those examples show etched logos on the back plates, but I bought an aftermarket set of them that did, to use when the Grover Rotomatics on my Mossman guitar crapped out. The tuners I got did not have the Sperzel brand name anywhere on them, but that's what they were. (Mine said: "C.F. Martin & Co.")

So if the tuners on your guitar have that same case as the ones in those photos, they're probably Sperzels.

Now, here's a photo of a 1979 Ovation with the Ovation logo on the tuner back plates:



˚˚˚

So if that's the shape of the tuner case and back plate, they're probably Schallers.

The Sperzels have a round back plate and the Schallers have a shield-shaped back plate.

Here's some 70's vintage Guild tuners:



˚˚˚

Is that what's on your guitar?

If so, those are made by Gotoh, and good luck trying to match those exactly to anything modern. I've never seen that model tuner before, and I doubt that they were in production for very long.

Okay, by following that image from my image search back to the source, I learned that there's a guy who specializes in selling parts that match those found on Guilds manufactured in Westerly, Rhode Island. Here's the page that shows the various tuners Guild used:

http://www.theguitarmechanic.com/GuildTuner.html

That was an education in and of itself. I was right about Guild using Schallers (sometimes,) but wrong about Sperzel. However, Guild also used tuners made by Grover, a company called Kolb that I'm unfamiliar with, and even Ping!

So look at that page and see which ones match the tuners on your guitar.

One more thought: unless you want tuners with the Guild logo on them, you can almost certainly find excellent modern tuners that can serve as direct drop-in replacements for the originals, and will probably tune more accurately, besides, for a lot less money than you'll need to spend to get originals.

It all comes down to whether you're primarily interested in getting functional tuners that work better or if you're also trying to do a restoration at the same time. The late 70's and early 80's were actually kind of a low point for the quality level of most brands of tuning gears (with the striking exception of Schaller, which was making superb gears at that time.) But if you're trying to keep the guitar historically correct, getting a replacement set of the original tuners is a good idea.

Hope this helps.


Wade Hampton Miller
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  #13  
Old 11-26-2015, 04:19 PM
KenL KenL is offline
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I just saw a set of Guild tuners from that era for sale somewhere on the Internet. I have an '81 Guild myself, which is why I noticed them.

Reverb.com, maybe? Do a searh, maybe they'll turn up.
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  #14  
Old 11-26-2015, 07:23 PM
k_russell k_russell is offline
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[QUOTE=Wade Hampton;4728833]
Okay, by following that image from my image search back to the source, I learned that there's a guy who specializes in selling parts that match those found on Guilds manufactured in Westerly, Rhode Island. Here's the page that shows the various tuners Guild used:

http://www.theguitarmechanic.com/GuildTuner.html

Looks like mine are on the upper right hand corner of the 1st picture. Thanks!
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  #15  
Old 11-26-2015, 07:27 PM
k_russell k_russell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota Red View Post
I put Grover Imperials on my '79 D-40C, the barrel-holes need no modification. Also had a '78 D-40C which is now my son's - he didn't like the stock Guild tuners and I put a set of Rotomatics on that guitar, again, barrel-hole is the right size for these Grovers.

Not everyone likes the "big" Grovers these days but I find 'em just fine on these Guilds.
That could be my guitar except mine has a few more signs of wear.
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