Ancient Glacial Sitka Spruce soundboards (~2750 yrs old)

Joel Teel · #1 09-29-2015, 11:09 PM

Hello all...

I've got some really unique Sitka soundboards that I bought last year. They are from a tree that was unearthed during the excavation of ASW's new production facility in Craig, Alaska. A sample of the tree was sent to a testing facility, and
through radio carbon testing, it was determined that this tree was entombed during a landslide ~2850 years ago. The tree was ~250 years old when it died..... so this tree germinated and began its life on the Earth in 1100 BC.

Think about this for a minute...and if you're so enclined, check out this timeline for a history lesson and a better understanding of the historical significance of these soundboards.

http://www.millingtonumconthefox.org...dtestrev7.html

These boards, due to the mineralized glacial flour which saturated the log over the past 2850 years, oxidized to a beautiful silvery-blue color.

Brent and Annette at Alaska Specialty Wood are some really great people, and I appreciate the opportunity that they gave me to purchase the four Dread sets that I have...which are spectacular. I've hidden them away, and plan to hold on to them. It is my understanding that this log has yielded fewer than a dozen dread-sized sets, of which two remain available (along with a smaller-bodied set). They are displayed on ASW's Facebook page, and can be ordered from their website...

http://www.alaskawoods.com/products....=Ancient_Sitka

I've been blessed with the opportunity to own four of these magnificent soundboards, and thought that someone here might also find the historical significance found within them to be irresistible.

Joel

GaultierRedon14 · #2 09-30-2015, 03:24 AM

Have you directly compared the tap tone of these sets with standard sitka? Does the wood otherwise exhibit anything unusual or extraordinary in it's tap tone, stiffness, etc.?
Just curious if others have already used it in a guitar and found anything unique about the tonal qualities.

Joel Teel · #3 09-30-2015, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaultierRedon14

Have you directly compared the tap tone of these sets with standard sitka? Does the wood otherwise exhibit anything unusual or extraordinary in it's tap tone, stiffness, etc.?
Just curious if others have already used it in a guitar and found anything unique about the tonal qualities.

Here's a link for Symphontree Music's website, and their exposé on this wood...

http://symphontreemusic.com/ancient-glacier-spruce/

Here's an excerpt from it... "The tap tone of these tops can be quickly summarized as deep, resonant bass with a clear high finish. If you tap these tops and compare accordingly you will hear a deeper bass response immediately but in addition a very clearly defined upper range."

You'll also read that Slash, from Guns and Roses, commissioned a guitar which paired this Ancient Glacier Spruce with The Tree Mahogany.

Personally, I have Mastergrade Sitka and 4A quilted Sitka sets in my collection, that also came from ASW, and I've compared these with the AGS. I don't find the AGS to be any more, or less, stiff...but I can tell you straight up that there is an overwhelming emotional response that I experience when I hold these tops in my hands and run my fingers across their fibers...and my sets do elicit a richer, more "mature" tone than my other Sitka sets.....I hope this helps answer your questions.

Joel

GaultierRedon14 · #4 09-30-2015, 06:24 AM

I did look at that guitar that Slash commissioned--frankly I think it's a little ugly. Of course, the individual woods are exceptionally rare and beautiful, but matching the Ancient Sitka with "The Tree" just doesn't work visually. Slash seems happy with it, though. I think he should have chosen a nice back/sides set of Gabon Ebony or Ziricote as a more complementary match to the Ancient Sitka, or even some quilted maple with a black translucent finish, but I digress...

Thank you for your description of the tonal qualities!

fazool · #5 09-30-2015, 06:29 AM

Rich history like Kauri

GaultierRedon14 · #6 09-30-2015, 11:04 PM

Thanks, I emailed Brent with a few questions, talked to my luthier, and decided to buy one of the Dreadnought sets. Assuming my luthier approves of it once he has it in his hands, we'll probably use it for an upcoming build. IF we do, it'll be here on the forum. I'm cautiously excited that we'll decide it is good enough (good tap tone, stable, etc.) and go for it! Aesthetically, it should fit beautifully into some ideas I have, and I, too, am quite captivated by the story of this wood.

Joel Teel · #7 10-01-2015, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaultierRedon14

Thanks, I emailed Brent with a few questions, talked to my luthier, and decided to buy one of the Dreadnought sets. Assuming my luthier approves of it once he has it in his hands, we'll probably use it for an upcoming build. IF we do, it'll be here on the forum. I'm cautiously excited that we'll decide it is good enough (good tap tone, stable, etc.) and go for it! Aesthetically, it should fit beautifully into some ideas I have, and I, too, am quite captivated by the story of this wood.

That's fantastic...I look forward to your build with great anticipation, and will have a very personal interest in it's outcome. I intend to use one of my sets for a personal build, and have a very special theme-build planned for the other three. Congratulations.

GaultierRedon14 · #8 10-01-2015, 07:13 AM

You must be quite excited! Congratulations to you, as well!
I included a picture for others to see what this soundboard set looks like. It's not a perfect set in terms of straight grain, but I was assured it is quite stable. As I said, my luthier is going to inspect it and we'll decide if we want to use it or return it. It's a big investment, so I don't take it lightly. Visually, I absolutely love the pattern of the mineral coloring. It will really work well with my ideas for this potential build.
Regarding your own builds, I hope you plan to post here, I will certainly be interested in how yours turn out as well. My build will likely begin sometime in January, that's all I'll say about it now.

TomB'sox · #9 10-01-2015, 03:30 PM

Wow, that is really a different color from any of the norm for sure. I am sure you have some great ideas of how to work with that and I will be very anxious to watch it come together.

Joel Teel · #10 10-01-2015, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomB'sox

Wow, that is really a different color from any of the norm for sure. I am sure you have some great ideas of how to work with that and I will be very anxious to watch it come together.

Tom,
The color is due to mineralization. The following is an excerpt from the Symphontree Music website and explains the phenomenon...

"To understand the coloring first we need to discuss glacier flour. Typically, rock or glacial flour is formed during glacial migration, where the glacier grinds against the sides and bottom of the rock beneath it. Glacial flour is also produced by freeze-and-thaw action, where the act of water freezing and expanding inside cracks helps break up rock formations. This flour is then deposited into the river systems and lakes. The result for the glacial-buried Spruce is a spectacular looking top with colors and figuring never seen before on any instrument."

Though the glacial movement in this area had receded long before this tree was entombed underneath 25 feet of earth, the glacial flour was left in the soil, and over the 2850 year period that this tree was buried, groundwater carried these pulverized minerals down and they were absorbed into the tree, creating the silvery-blue colors.

BTW, our mutual friend, Steve Sheriff, has seen the first set that I acquired, and he strongly suggested that I reserve it for a very special "milestone" guitar build.

Joel

TomB'sox · #11 10-01-2015, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wood Knot

Tom,
The color is due to mineralization. The following is an excerpt from the Symphontree Music website and explains the phenomenon...

"To understand the coloring first we need to discuss glacier flour. Typically, rock or glacial flour is formed during glacial migration, where the glacier grinds against the sides and bottom of the rock beneath it. Glacial flour is also produced by freeze-and-thaw action, where the act of water freezing and expanding inside cracks helps break up rock formations. This flour is then deposited into the river systems and lakes. The result for the glacial-buried Spruce is a spectacular looking top with colors and figuring never seen before on any instrument."

Though the glacial movement in this area had receded long before this tree was entombed underneath 25 feet of earth, the glacial flour was left in the soil, and over the 2850 year period that this tree was buried, groundwater carried these pulverized minerals down and they were absorbed into the tree, creating the silvery-blue colors.

BTW, our mutual friend, Steve Sheriff, has seen the first set that I acquired, and he strongly suggested that I reserve it for a very special "milestone" guitar build.

Joel

The whole idea behind this wood is mesmerizing to say the least, the time frame 1100 years BC is just ridiculous.

Do you know why they were only able to get the 12 sets out of it? It must have been quite large having been 250 years old when it was taken out by the landslide? Was only a small portion preserved.

Oh, and if Steve of Edwinson guitars liked it, that is a pretty darned good endorsement for sure.

theEdwinson · #12 10-01-2015, 06:31 PM

The story I heard about the extreme scarcity of viable wood sets from this ancient tree is, all but a very small portion of it had degraded to the point of being unusable. It's actually incredible that ANY of it was still viable, given the three millenia it laid buried in glacial till.
Brent, being a very canny and experienced sawyer, knew how to get the most usable wood out of it. Anyone else probably never would have even given this exhumed treasure a second look. But thanks to Brent's sharp eye, and keen judgement, we have a very small amount of the stuff legends are made of!

Joel, having two (or is it three?) sets of this amazing wood, THAT is a gift bestowed upon you as an unmistakable blessing upon your decision to embark on a career in lutherie. These things don't happen by accident, you know!

Joel Teel · #13 10-02-2015, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theEdwinson

The story I heard about the extreme scarcity of viable wood sets from this ancient tree is, all but a very small portion of it had degraded to the point of being unusable. It's actually incredible that ANY of it was still viable, given the three millenia it laid buried in glacial till.
Brent, being a very canny and experienced sawyer, knew how to get the most usable wood out of it. Anyone else probably never would have even given this exhumed treasure a second look. But thanks to Brent's sharp eye, and keen judgement, we have a very small amount of the stuff legends are made of!

Joel, having two (or is it three?) sets of this amazing wood, THAT is a gift bestowed upon you as an unmistakable blessing upon your decision to embark on a career in lutherie. These things don't happen by accident, you know!

Hello Steve,
Brent told me that he didn't get curious at first...simply pushing it out if the way and continuing to excavate. It wasn't until days later that his curiosity got the best of him, and he washed the mud off and cut into it. He explained that within minutes it oxidized to the beautiful color, and that's when he became excited and sent a section off to have it scientifically dated. There was only a portion of the tree (maybe 10 feet down to the roots) the rest possibly breaking off and being carried by the landslide to a different resting spot. I had only acquired the single set when I visited your shop for the first time. The idea for the "Trinity Series" came to me later, and that's when I began my quest for the other three sets...so I now own four sets. This is the one that I showed to you...

Tom...
Brent would have to answer the question of why he was only able to cut so few dread/jumbo sets from the section of tree...but I do know that he was able to get many more ukulele to small guitar-sized sets, and there are also small 1/2" thick book sets for drop top construction.

Joel Teel · #14 10-02-2015, 03:04 PM

Here's a close up of it...

TomB'sox · #15 10-02-2015, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wood Knot

Hello Steve,
Brent told me that he didn't get curious at first...simply pushing it out if the way and continuing to excavate. It wasn't until days later that his curiosity got the best of him, and he washed the mud off and cut into it. He explained that within minutes it oxidized to the beautiful color, and that's when he became excited and sent a section off to have it scientifically dated. There was only a portion of the tree (maybe 10 feet down to the roots) the rest possibly breaking off and being carried by the landslide to a different resting spot. I had only acquired the single set when I visited your shop for the first time. The idea for the "Trinity Series" came to me later, and that's when I began my quest for the other three sets...so I now own four sets. This is the one that I showed to you...

Tom...
Brent would have to answer the question of why he was only able to cut so few dread/jumbo sets from the section of tree...but I do know that he was able to get many more ukulele to small guitar-sized sets, and there are also small 1/2" thick book sets for drop top construction.

Now that is a completely different color than the one previously posted By GaltierR. (sp?)