Will these varnish irregularities buff out?

[Sam VanLaningham]

Hello all - Questions for you: I am using epifanes varnish with accelerator. I am brushing it on. I was a little laid back with drips because I was thinking it was like nitro and that the 2nd coat would burn in with the first coat. Maybe Not?

So, now Im trying to knock down the drips. I scraped a bit of the thicker drips and sags with a cabinet scraper. But it still seems impossible to get the irregular areas fully flush with the rest of the finish and/or I sand through to the dye in put on.

Any hints, thoughts, opinions etc related to fixing this and continuing on? Man I hope I dont have to go back to bare wood and re-burst. Rubbing that dye in took forever! Cool and thanks for any help.

Sam
Varnish drips by samvanlan, on Flickr

[Aubade Acoustics]

Sam, I have used Epifanes on exterior doors before but it would not be a choice of mine for a guitar. It does not burn in like Nitro and brushing is tough. It needs to be sanded between coats to adhere to the previous coat and tough to do anything with if you go through. Hope things work out.

[B. Howard]

That will not buff out. The witness marks between coats will always be visible, they may well even still show up under a new coat of finish.

[Sam VanLaningham]

Originally Posted by Aubade Acoustics

Sam, I have used Epifanes on exterior doors before but it would not be a choice of mine for a guitar. It does not burn in like Nitro and brushing is tough. It needs to be sanded between coats to adhere to the previous coat and tough to do anything with if you go through. Hope things work out.

Hi aubade-thanks for your thoughts. For sake of discussion I'll explain why I went with epifanes. I don't want to buy a sprayer yet, so as much as I liked working with nitro, that was off table (because the cans are way too expensive). I also wanted somethjng that has a tradition in instruments. French polish sounded intense but varnish sounded doable to me. I guess early 1900s instruments were varnished. And more than that, several luthiers use varnish, including the venerable bruce sexauer and kim walker, who's guitars seem incredible.

As far as epifanes, several great luthiers use it such as Laurent brondel and a slew of mandolin builders. Several here on agf have tried it and liked it, but also were just as happy with ace or the old formula of behlens rock hard. I think brackett instruments is the one quoted as saying collings uses epifanes for their custom varnish finishes (although other dispute this). So, not knowing nuthin about varnish, I gravitated there for these reasons (I had used spar varnish on some furniture once).

But like I say, I appreciate your thougjts and feedback! Thanks.sam

[Sam VanLaningham]

Originally Posted by B. Howard

That will not buff out. The witness marks between coats will always be visible, they may well even still show up under a new coat of finish.

Ok, good info. I should have said that the pic shown was only the second coat. I plan on doing more.

If I flip your statement around, are you saying that those lines have a chance of disappearing after more coats? I was worried that there was virtually no chance.

Ok thanks for all the help! I'm going to put next coats on a touch thinner, goong for some more control. My dad, a wooden boat builder said he gravitated in his later years to using a 1" wide roller just because it puts the finish on very evenly. Hmmmmm

Sam

[B. Howard]

Originally Posted by Left of Sam

If I flip your statement around, are you saying that those lines have a chance of disappearing after more coats? I was worried that there was virtually no chance.

Perhaps, though a good eye will usually be able to tell they are there. Using a scotch brite pad or some steel wool after sanding to remove the glossy trails at the edges of the sand throughs will help minimize their impact in the final finish and prevent any delaminations or "pops" in the end.

[Sam VanLaningham]

Originally Posted by B. Howard

Perhaps, though a good eye will usually be able to tell they are there. Using a scotch brite pad or some steel wool after sanding to remove the glossy trails at the edges of the sand throughs will help minimize their impact in the final finish and prevent any delaminations or "pops" in the end.

Awesome that is super helpful. Thanks a lot!

Fyi I like your builds!

Sam

[BlmJn]

I would not use steel wool on any varnish. You will have small particles of steel stuck in the varnish that will probably rust over time.

[B. Howard]

Originally Posted by BlmJn

I would not use steel wool on any varnish. You will have small particles of steel stuck in the varnish that will probably rust over time.

That is really only a problem with water based finishes.

[evantide]

Man that looks like one of my guitars which I've been working on. I am curious to your solution if there is one without sanding it to the wood. As far as the scratches go, I was able to get most of the shallow ones off the back by rubbing compound, for one of my beater guitars. As for the deep ones, one has to go deeper rub depending on depth.

Getting back to my guitar that looks like yours at the back, in mine, the top was painted white by previous owner, real white paint, looked like hell, so I began to sand it down to bare wood.
Then I realized why he painted it...seemed to me, the pic guard came unglued and he used a sander to get the glue out, probably a spinning one on the drill, so there was deep gouges into the next layer of laminate. I did the best I could, laid some Danish oil on it after sanding, and it looks funky as hell, like Willy Nelson's.
Ahhh...but the sound of this Yammy is amazing, I don't know how Yamaha got that kind of sound out of a laminate top. I plan to shellac it. I have no hope of getting a good finish, cause the layer below does not take the oil to a uniform finish, I get lighter spots etc.

Good luck Sam,
By the way, I sampled some of your songs, very nice.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by evantide

laid some Danish oil on it ... I plan to varnish as you have done....

Hmmmm, varnish over Danish oil......

[evantide]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Hmmmm, varnish over Danish oil......

Sorry, I meant shellac it, It wasn't me, it was the weed.

[Sam VanLaningham]

Originally Posted by evantide

Sorry, I meant shellac it, It wasn't me, it was the weed.

Haha! And thx for listening and commenting on tunes. Appreciated!

Anyways, I'll bd posting pics of the curing product in a bit. As I've said elsewhere, this thing is gonna look a bit reliced straight out of the gate.

Cool.

[Sam VanLaningham]

OK QUESTION: I think I've got enough coats on (4 or 5).

Should I wait to let the finish cure before final leveling?

Anyways, here's the good bad and ugly of this finish job. I see promise and imperfection and poor craftsmanship! BUt I love it anyways.

The witness lines are totally visible when looking for them, as B Howard stated would happen.

Untitled by samvanlan, on Flickr

by samvanlan, on Flickr

by samvanlan, on Flickr

[Sam VanLaningham]

Ok rather than start a new thread, just trying to understand a bit more about varnishing.

Is it normal that varnish peels up so easily with a putty knife? At room temperature it came off in large flakes.

Varnish peel up by samvanlan, on Flickr