Believe it or Not... but this makes sense...common sense

[Dina4]

I posted this to someone a while back in response to a guitar storage issue. I have guitars stored away that have not seen the light of day for months at a time. The excerpt below comes from Dan Erlewine and while it seems severe, is there anyone with more experience and knowledge than this guy? Perhaps...All so simple ya'know!

"The cause of plastic deterioration seems to be the long-term escape of the solvents and plasticizers used during the manufacturing process (without these, the plastic dries out and crumbles). At the progressive stages of this deterioration, the escaping gasses cause fumes that can eat into finishes and wood, corrode surrounding or attached metal parts (turning them green) and will eventually destroy your case.� (and your guitar)"

"Plastic deterioration may be accelerated by leaving an instrument in a case for long periods of time (not allowing the fumes to escape)� by Dan Erlewine" �Guitar Player Repair Guide 2nd Edition�

I have never questioned keeping my most prized possessions anywhere but in their cases. Some of my cases, like the guitars they were designed to hold, are molded to the extreme allowing little air circulation- trapping solvent vapors from finishing materials of all descriptions- NCL, methyl hydrate from French polish, and caustic vapors from plastic manufacturing etc. Cases are much tighter and more constrictive than they used to be, with rubber tongue and groove that allows virtually no exchange of fresh air. To make things worse, I don't play these guitars for months at a time and they remain locked in their cases. The build up of finishing vapor on a new guitar with five or more layers of NCL must be huge if there is no exchange of fresh air.

I have read many threads concerning sticky finishes on both new and older guitars and my guess is most of these finishes never have a chance to cure properly as we continue to keep them in their cases - curing in a fairly caustic mix of evaporating solvents from finishing materials and plastics ie binding, and other man-made parts. Not to mention the cases we keep them in are made of entirely synthetic materials and can be quite nasty in and of themselves. Ya know the junk that builds up on the inside of the lower front of your car windshield on a really hot day - simply vapors from the vinyl and plastics as your dashboard material breaks down. Virtually every part of a guitar is adversely affected including plastic wire insulation, pickups etc.

I've never been able to get a reasonable answer on the best method to store good instruments not being played frequently . This excerpt from Erlewine makes more sense than anything I�ve read on the subject. This guy has been a guitar repair guru forever and has probably seen about everything. He has repaired and built guitars for the worlds best and has an outstanding reputation as a guitar tech.

Here is my solution. For the price of a decent guitar, I built them all a new home. White String Swing Yokes all the way handsome!!!...not the brown iteration!

My unwavering respect for all of you!
Charles

[icy_wind500]

So is it better to keep in or out of the case??

[CyberFerret]

Here are some shots of my Ibanez AR-300 Artist that had been stored in a case in a cupboard for about 5 years, leading to excessive binding rot caused by the other plastics breaking down and releasing toxic gases within the case.





I actually sent these pictures to Dan Erlewine himself, and he confirmed the cause, and told me that there was basically nothing that I could do about it...

This is why all my guitars are stored on external stands, or on wall hangers now as much as possible. If they have to stay in a case, I ensure it is not for more than a few months at a time, and I rotate them around.

[Drubbing]

Only on a guitar forum will you see everyday over-thinking turned into irrational obsession.

[530]

Wow Dina,

What you did there looks spectacular!

[Dina4]

Originally Posted by Drubbing

Only on a guitar forum will you see everyday over-thinking turned into irrational obsession.

Perhaps...Perhaps not...I enjoy any perspective or alternate view no matter how "over thought" or "irrational" it appears. Forums exist for this purpose. Protecting valuable and prized possessions isn't irrational. Not doing so is...I believe.

[Wade Hampton]

After Charles explained why keeping guitars sealed up in their cases for months at a time can cause serious problems, Icy Wind asked:

Originally Posted by icy_wind500

So is it better to keep in or out of the case??

He's saying it's better to keep them aired out, or at least removing them from their cases once and awhile to keep fumes from building up. That's why he went to the trouble and expense of creating the guitar storage display that he has.

Then Drubbing wrote:

Originally Posted by Drubbing

Only on a guitar forum will you see everyday over-thinking turned into irrational obsession.

You must not read many forums on other subjects, then, Drubbing, if you think that's unique to guitar forums.

For what it's worth, both Charles and CyberFerret can point to genuine damage caused by leaving guitars sealed up. That's neither "over-thinking" or "irrational obsession," but its opposite: explaining what can happen when you ignore the problem.

I thank both of you guys for mentioning this to us and alerting us to the problem.


Wade Hampton Miller

[Oldguy64]

I think that If you have so many guitars, that some don't see the light of day....for years....you might have too many guitars.

I keep all mine cased, first it was because my children were young and rambunctious. We also had a number of cats. Now it's because we have kids that visit with their fur babies, that aren't guitar savvy.

But they rarely spend more than a couple of weeks cased. Even the one that comes out least, gets played fairly regularly.

[CyberFerret]

Originally Posted by Oldguy64

I think that If you have so many guitars, that some don't see the light of day....for years....you might have too many guitars.

Too many guitars isn't always the easy 'catch all' identifier to the problem.

There could be circumstances such as bad health, overseas military service etc. that can see guitars go untouched in cases

In my case, it was a time where I was just starting up a fledgling business, just gotten married and had our first child. Guitar playing was just not even on the radar for that time because I had so much else going on in my life. I just had the 3 guitars back then and they sat in the cupboard untouched for YEARS.

[Dina4]

Originally Posted by CyberFerret

Here are some shots of my Ibanez AR-300 Artist that had been stored in a case in a cupboard for about 5 years, leading to excessive binding rot caused by the other plastics breaking down and releasing toxic gases within the case.





I actually sent these pictures to Dan Erlewine himself, and he confirmed the cause, and told me that there was basically nothing that I could do about it...

This is why all my guitars are stored on external stands, or on wall hangers now as much as possible. If they have to stay in a case, I ensure it is not for more than a few months at a time, and I rotate them around.

Cyberferret,
Could you please explain what the Black staining is? Is that absorbed color from the case or color change from deterioration or mold? Is the binding coming away from the body of the guitar, gapping?

Thanks much!

[Dina4]

Originally Posted by 530

Wow Dina,

What you did there looks spectacular!

You are so kind.
Thank you!

Everything was recycled, old kitchen cabinets, hinge cut tabletops, mirrors from a hotel under demolition, lots of silicone, a day to level cabinet top. Dirt cheap hardware! (Like really Dirt Cheap)! (like junk Dirt Cheap), so is the glass and so is everything else!

[Oldguy64]

Originally Posted by CyberFerret

Too many guitars isn't always the easy 'catch all' identifier to the problem.

There could be circumstances such as bad health, overseas military service etc. that can see guitars go untouched in cases

In my case, it was a time where I was just starting up a fledgling business, just gotten married and had our first child. Guitar playing was just not even on the radar for that time because I had so much else going on in my life. I just had the 3 guitars back then and they sat in the cupboard untouched for YEARS.

I can see those as more than legitimate reasons.
As I've gotten older, and hopefully wiser, I see guitar playing as therapeutic.
I can't imagine not playing at least weekly.
It requires some concentration...which for me, takes my mind off the crap I've I've had to deal with thru the day.
It is my avenue to "re center" what's left of my mind.
But I was looking at all those guitars in that beautiful cabinet, and wondering how one could find the time to play em all....

[guit3090]

A good friend of mine had a collection of top end electric Les Pauls and Strats, Which never got played, A couple of them were 5,000 dollar custom shop guitars, He always had them locked up in their cases, he never played them, yet he never had any damage to them. He kept out an Epiphone Les Paul to play.

[Dina4]

Originally Posted by Oldguy64

I can see those as more than legitimate reasons.
As I've gotten older, and hopefully wiser, I see guitar playing as therapeutic.
I can't imagine not playing at least weekly.
It requires some concentration...which for me, takes my mind off the crap I've I've had to deal with thru the day.
It is my avenue to "re center" what's left of my mind.
But I was looking at all those guitars in that beautiful cabinet, and wondering how one could find the time to play em all....

You don't play them all....! That's what the thread is about.... Where do you keep them when you don't?


Finishes may not cure properly closed up in an air tight case. Would your guitar sound better if the finish had a chance to cure and harden? Maybe...a valid question for sure.

Your missing the point of the thread. It isn't about too many guitars. It is about preservation and conservation of our least expensive to most expensive instrument.

You Can Never Have Too Many Guitars!! We all know that! Just nice to know that this is perhaps and more than likely responsible for significant damage long term...perhaps even short term....

[DesertTwang]

Very interesting to know...