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Old 10-01-2013, 01:45 PM
nwsht nwsht is offline
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Default 3 string capos

If I use a capo, I prefer the Kyser capo. I'm interested in 3 string capos and would like to purchase two of them.

I know they are meant for strings 3,4,5 or 2,3,4, but can they also be used on 1,2,3 and 4,5,6?

Additionally, would I have trouble using a Kyser cut capo on a classical guitar? I pretty much have been playing the classical exclusively at the moment.

Maybe I should buy normal capos and modify them?

Thank you,
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Old 10-01-2013, 02:29 PM
royd royd is offline
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Originally Posted by nwsht View Post
If I use a capo, I prefer the Kyser capo. I'm interested in 3 string capos and would like to purchase two of them.

I know they are meant for strings 3,4,5 or 2,3,4, but can they also be used on 1,2,3 and 4,5,6?

Additionally, would I have trouble using a Kyser cut capo on a classical guitar? I pretty much have been playing the classical exclusively at the moment.

Maybe I should buy normal capos and modify them?

Thank you,
The Kyser cut capos are fairly short and wouldn't work well with the width of the nut on a classical. Also, assuming we're talking about a classical with a flat radius vs. a crossover with a bit of a curve, the radius of the capo might cause some buzzes.

I would make your own out of Kyser classical capos if you have a flat radius or regular Kysers if it is curved. For that matter, if it is curved, I would probably start with the Kyser drop d capo so I'd have a little more clearance on the string that goes underneath the capo.
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Old 10-01-2013, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by nwsht View Post
If I use a capo, I prefer the Kyser capo. I'm interested in 3 string capos and would like to purchase two of them.
...I know they are meant for strings 3,4,5 or 2,3,4, but can they also be used on 1,2,3 and 4,5,6?
...Additionally, would I have trouble using a Kyser cut capo on a classical guitar? I pretty much have been playing the classical exclusively at the moment.
...Maybe I should buy normal capos and modify them?
Hi nwsht...

Capos for classical guitars have an upper bumper which is totally straight and span a 2'' nut width, whereas capos for acoustic guitars are designed with a curved upper bumper and 1 11/16'' or 1 3/4'' or 1 7/8'' nut width. It is important to use the proper version on each type of neck.

If you already have a Kyser capo you can easily build a cut capo out of it for covering strings 3-4-5 (or 2-3-4) by flipping it upside down, removing the bottom piece, measuring the lower piece so it spans strings 4-5-6 at the 2nd fret and then trimming the piece so each end falls approximately half-way between strings 6/5 and 2/3 (at the 2nd fret). I trim them with a sheet rock knife.

Then return the trimmed piece to the bottom clamp and use your Kyser for both a normal and cut version by flipping it upside down for cut capo work.

It usually doesn't work well at all to use a capo which was cut for strings 3-4-5 (2-3-4 applied the other direction) for covering strings 1-2-3 or 6-5-4. The curvature of the back of the neck causes them to pop off too easily.

If you are going to cut your own from manufactured capos, the Kyser is a hard one to make work because they want to pitch forward (tip on their nose) when cut from a conventional capo. The Planet Waves NS (aluminum version) or the Planet Waves Dual Action work far better. And even the Planet Waves NS need the lower clamps to be built up. I use shrink tube to build them up.

I tried cutting Kysers (I actually DID cut some), but they were always shifting around on me. Even Kyser builds a different angle into the frame of their cut versions. Same with Shubbs - they want to pitch forward and are hard to keep in place. I have watched David Wilcox, Trace Bundy and Phil Keaggy wrestle with keeping them in place on strings 1-2-3 and 4-5-6 in the 'early days' of experimenting with cutting our own.

My Planet Waves versions stay on the inner strings really well and look like this.

Here's a picture of both the Planet Waves NS and Planet Waves Dual Action before/after I cut them. I use the Planet Waves NS when I have a lot of time to put them on by hand, and the Dual Action spring loaded version when I'm in a hurry.



Hope this helps...


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Old 10-01-2013, 04:20 PM
royd royd is offline
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Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
If you are going to cut your own from manufactured capos, the Kyser is a hard one to make work because they want to pitch forward (tip on their nose) when cut from a conventional capo. The Planet Waves NS (aluminum version) or the Planet Waves Dual Action work far better. And even the Planet Waves NS need the lower clamps to be built up. I use shrink tube to build them up.
hmmm... I've been cutting Kysers since the mid 90's, maybe earlier, into a variety of configurations and have never had any problems. I've never needed to build up the pad on the lower half of the clamp. I've not cut a Planet Waves so I can't speak to whether or not it is easier to do. I have one whole Planet Waves NS in another case that I use very rarely.

These are the capos that I keep with one of my guitars... Notice that the black Kyser to the right with the adhesive tape on the handle is one that I cut into an Esus4 from a standard capo and the green K-Lever started out as a Drop D which I cut into a Double Drop D. Also, you can see the pad on the Esus4 that I made is slightly longer than the commercial ones. This allows me to take it further up the neck. I have another that is longer yet which makes it impossible to use at the 2nd fret, but it works well above the 7th fret. The Kysers are always my 1st choice.

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Old 10-01-2013, 04:43 PM
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hmmm... I've been cutting Kysers since the mid 90's, maybe earlier...
Hi royd...

I suspect the differences you and I expressed have to do with neck profiles. Never saw that k-lever version before. I didn't mean Kysers need the bottom bumper built up, they just have a tendency to tip/pitch forward. Only the Planet Waves are the ones I build up the bottom arm to keep them level.

Kyser capos which are manufactured 'cut' are shaped so they don't tip. I've owned several. I started cutting my own capos and experimenting to custom fit each of my different guitars.

I like the look of the G7th - how do they work out?

Glad to know someone else is as obsessive as me...maybe more!

I have specific Planet Waves tailored to specific guitars. I average the width based on the span at fret 2 and fret 5 and split the difference. I have not used cut capos above the 5th fret. May have to give it a whirl...

I prefer the Planet Waves because of the adjustable tension, and the Dual Action are like an adjustable Kyser built with the handle pointing down.

Have you cut any with gaps? I've not yet.

Am I off-base or do the k-lever versions come pre-cut? I cannot find a k-lever version which is not pre-cut.


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Last edited by ljguitar; 10-01-2013 at 04:54 PM. Reason: Added k-lever question...
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Old 10-01-2013, 05:51 PM
royd royd is offline
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Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
[size=2]
I suspect the differences you and I expressed have to do with neck profiles.
true... and especially with cut capos, those angles become important

Quote:
Never saw that k-lever version before.

Am I off-base or do the k-lever versions come pre-cut? I cannot find a k-lever version which is not pre-cut.
The K-levers are all pre-cut, available in 4 configurations - Esus4, Drop D, Double Drop D, and A. I don't think it was a successful product. They seem to have pretty much disappeared from the marketplace. I like them for playing the string that goes underneath and find it easier than reaching behind the capo for that fret, but they do require a slight change in hand position to do that. I don't know how long the lever and piston will last so I'd like to pick up a few spares. I don't know anybody who is still selling them online.

Quote:
I like the look of the G7th - how do they work out?
I'm not crazy about them. I picked them up at NAMM last year. The Esus4 pivots back when you play (maybe that neck profile issue again) and the gap for the #6 string doesn't have very much clearance so it is prone to buzzes. The nice parts are that they are soooo low profile that it is very easy to play behind the capo and they are very light weight.

Quote:
I have specific Planet Waves tailored to specific guitars. I average the width based on the span at fret 2 and fret 5 and split the difference.
which is pretty much what the OP should do to make it work well on the classical

Quote:
I have not used cut capos above the 5th fret. May have to give it a whirl...
I have a couple of songs that do that and have been working on a new tune at the 9th fret with most of the fretting done behind the capo.

Quote:
Have you cut any with gaps? I've not yet.
no... too much work to figure out the fingerings

I do use multiple capos in a number of tunes. This tune uses two Esus4's - one at the second fret upside down and the second at the fourth fret in the "normal" direction which gives me these open notes from low to high E C# F# B C# E. FWIW, I always use the Shubb for upside down as the Kyser handle gets in the way of playing behind it... or I use the double drop d Kyser at the second fret oriented normally which gives me the same "open" notes.

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Old 10-01-2013, 07:23 PM
philjs philjs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royd View Post
The K-levers are all pre-cut, available in 4 configurations - Esus4, Drop D, Double Drop D, and A. I don't think it was a successful product. They seem to have pretty much disappeared from the marketplace. I like them for playing the string that goes underneath and find it easier than reaching behind the capo for that fret, but they do require a slight change in hand position to do that. I don't know how long the lever and piston will last so I'd like to pick up a few spares. I don't know anybody who is still selling them online.
Harvey Reid has them listed on his PartialCapo.com site...

I've never tried these lever ones but have become quite facile at fretting above (or below, as the case may be) partial capos so have never felt the need for one. Like LJ, I much prefer the Planet Waves Dual-Action capos because they're thin enough to actually get your index finger behind to fret that string. I frequently capo only 4 strings and the dual-action ones are the only ones that do that (for me) without any alteration at all. I have a couple cut for Esus4 -- and a couple for 4 strings only, though I use them infrequently -- but I much prefer the Shubb C7b "Esus4" capos.

For the OP, I've never found a capo that works for only three strings off the edge of the neck, outside of a 3rd Hand or a Spider...

Phil
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:36 AM
nwsht nwsht is offline
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Thank you for the replies and pictures!

I ordered two classical guitar capos, as both of my classical guitars are standard, no-radius. Hopefully the first modification goes well, and I can use the second one maybe as just a standard capo.

It will be nice to use a capo to make fake DADGAD. Retuning classical is somewhat annoying because the strings need to settle, so retuning never ends.

If this mod is easy, I will mod my stand kyser. Or maybe I'll mod the standard kyser tonight for my regular acoustic.

Luckily, classical capos are $5 more than standard.
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Old 10-02-2013, 02:21 PM
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...It will be nice to use a capo to make fake DADGAD. Retuning classical is somewhat annoying because the strings need to settle, so retuning never ends.
Hi nwsht...

It's simulation the open strings of DADGAD but you really have not retuned any strings. I have ported some DADGAD and CGCGCD songs to Esus positioned cut capo and it can be done, but it requires modifications, and some thinking. Since you have not actually retuned anything, a lot of chords and inversions are in the same place they were in standard.

A suggestion - to become familiar with what it can do, play in keys of D or G relative to the Esus positioned cut capo to get some idea of what can be done. And then learn the one finger chords you can play…

Here's a video I did for beginners to get off the ground with an Esus positioned capo...all in key of D relative to it. I also play in key of G relative to the capo. It's just to get you started with noodling with the capo in place.

Getting started with Esus - ClicK

I sometimes call it "EGAD" tuning. If you are playing in key of D relative to the capo, you are sounding in key of E and some of the fingerings are still standard tuning. That's why I say it makes one 'think' to harness it. I love it though and ordinarily do a couple songs during a set when I'm gigging with the Esus capo.

Your are correct, it saves retuning and waiting for strings to settle.

Hope this helps...


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