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Old 05-14-2013, 12:40 PM
Jackknifegypsy Jackknifegypsy is offline
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Default Bad finger habit in right hand..

..have recently learned that the fingers must move at the joint where the fingers meet the hand, not where I've been moving from, at the next joint on fingers or at both joints.

Is there a cure for this deeply ingrained habit? Other than persevering with conscious effort to break it (gonna slow me down significantly).

There must be some great advantage to it but I can't determine what it is.
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:19 PM
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..have recently learned that the fingers must move at the joint where the fingers meet the hand, not where I've been moving from, at the next joint on fingers or at both joints.
Really Jack?

Michael Chapdelaine - CLiCK

Tommy E - CLiCK

Doug Young - CLiCK

Al Petteway - CLiCK

Never heard that, and don't agree with it.


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Old 05-14-2013, 01:26 PM
Paikon Paikon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackknifegypsy View Post
..have recently learned that the fingers must move at the joint where the fingers meet the hand, not where I've been moving from, at the next joint on fingers or at both joints.

Is there a cure for this deeply ingrained habit? Other than persevering with conscious effort to break it (gonna slow me down significantly).

There must be some great advantage to it but I can't determine what it is.
i suggest you buy or download if there is out there the "effortless guitar" video from William Kanengiser member of Los Angeles Guitar Quartet
He explains very well how the fingers must move and how to train them
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:26 PM
jseth jseth is offline
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What a crock! Who told you that? As LJ pointed out, it ain't so...

Hey, Jack? Want to buy a bridge? I've got one for sale cheap!!!

(seriously... don't believe everything you read/hear/see...)
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:32 PM
Paikon Paikon is offline
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ok its on youtube on 10 parts
heres what you need to know at part 2 at 2:20 min
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldChZoSdvak
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:23 PM
J-Doug J-Doug is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackknifegypsy View Post
..have recently learned that the fingers must move at the joint where the fingers meet the hand, not where I've been moving from, at the next joint on fingers or at both joints.

Is there a cure for this deeply ingrained habit? Other than persevering with conscious effort to break it (gonna slow me down significantly).

There must be some great advantage to it but I can't determine what it is.
I don't know who told you that but I think they are full of it. All three on my joints move when I fingerpick and I have no problems at all.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:34 PM
Jackknifegypsy Jackknifegypsy is offline
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Default Paikon

thx for the referral to the video on Youtube.

Looks like there's no other way to break the habit but conscious effort.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:38 PM
Paikon Paikon is offline
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Originally Posted by Jackknifegypsy View Post
thx for the referral to the video on Youtube.

Looks like there's no other way to break the habit but conscious effort.
you are welcome
watch all ten parts of effortless guitar and this also

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0Edsc4AujU
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Old 05-15-2013, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackknifegypsy View Post
..have recently learned that the fingers must move at the joint where the fingers meet the hand, not where I've been moving from, at the next joint on fingers or at both joints.

Is there a cure for this deeply ingrained habit? Other than persevering with conscious effort to break it (gonna slow me down significantly).

There must be some great advantage to it but I can't determine what it is.
yes, this is correct. not solely from the knuckle, but primarily.

here is a page from 'the art of classical guitar playing' by charles duncan. the second paragraph is relevant:




Quote:
Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
i watched this video, and it definitely looked to me like he was primarily moving from the knuckle.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackknifegypsy View Post
thx for the referral to the video on Youtube.

Looks like there's no other way to break the habit but conscious effort.
if you watch this video of alice artzt, around the 5:15 mark she talks a little about the hand motion. it's a very natural movement similar to picking up a stick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW1pDXnSGxI


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Originally Posted by Paikon View Post
you are welcome
watch all ten parts of effortless guitar and this also

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0Edsc4AujU
i've bookmarked that for watching later.
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Old 05-15-2013, 06:23 AM
dhalbert dhalbert is offline
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Default like piano technique?

This movement from the first knuckle reminds of the normal way one is taught to play the piano. The starting and stopping locations may be different, but it seems very natural to me (after many years of piano playing). Maybe a little cross-training on the piano would help.
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Old 05-15-2013, 06:32 AM
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Any player who can play and project music in a way to move listeners, his technique, as efficient or inefficient it may be, becomes irrelevant.
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Old 05-15-2013, 06:42 AM
Paikon Paikon is offline
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Any player who can play and project music in a way to move listeners, his technique, as efficient or inefficient it may be, becomes irrelevant.
true ,there is a guy who plays with his feet cos he has no hands and he moves listeners BUT when the issue is tone production, fast runs, accuracy then how the fingers move is very important.
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Old 05-15-2013, 07:03 AM
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efficiency and ergonomics are also important for playing long term without injury. i can't see why a natural ergonomic movement isn't to be preferred.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by mc1 View Post
efficiency and ergonomics are also important for playing long term without injury. i can't see why a natural ergonomic movement isn't to be preferred.
Hi all...

I think I confused Jack's original post to mean the finger was being flexed at the first knuckle, and was eliminating the motion of the finger from the middle joint toward the palm.

By all methods discussed in this post the tip of the finger is still drawn toward the palm, and the emphasis on the knuckle (versus finger joint) is a bit mute as one cannot draw the finger tip over a string without that knuckle being involved (unless you are clawing the strings).

I'd say the videos I posted all four of the players had fairly ergonomic approaches, and fit the descriptions listed in mc1's diagrams...

As a fingerstyle teacher, I'm left wondering what technique Jackknifegypsy is listing as 'wrong'. I guess I'd love to see an example of it.

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  #15  
Old 05-15-2013, 09:39 AM
dhalbert dhalbert is offline
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Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
I think I confused Jack's original post to mean the finger was being flexed at the first knuckle, and was eliminating the motion of the finger from the middle joint toward the palm.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knuckle:
The knuckles at the base of the fingers may be referred to as the 1st or major knuckles while the knuckles at the midfinger are known as the 2nd and 3rd, or minor, knuckles.
I am not even sure we are all talking about the same thing when we say "knuckle" vs. "finger joint". When I said "first knuckle", I meant the joint where the finger meets the back of the hand. In the picture below, that's the "MCP" joint. Which do you mean when you say knuckle and middle joint?

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