Need a suggestion for a new guitar

[Chaduke]

I've been playing guitar for about 20 years now, my background is primarily in blues and rock music with a little classical study. I've recently been getting into Merle Travis, Chet Atkins, Tommy Emmanuel, that style of playing.

I currently play on a low end Taylor Dreadnought and really enjoy it. I can hardly imagine a better value for the price, no complaints really. First time I can actually say that about a guitar I've owned.

Here's my dilemma - I'm finding it very difficult to get my thumb around the neck to make some of the chord shapes. I never thought of myself as having particularly small hands, but after seeing the way some of these songs are actually played I'm thinking otherwise. I know a bit of practice is involved, and I can say its getting slightly easier with time, but I'm still cheating a bit.

Its very difficult to imagine this would have ever felt like a natural thing for me to do. That's why I'm thinking about a smaller scaled guitar.

I've looked into a few of the Maton models but I'd have to do quite a bit of driving to get to a place that actually sells them. I noticed Taylor and Martin make a few smaller models but the ones I saw seemed a bit cheap, almost like a beginner or child's guitar.

My ideal situation would be a guitar that is easier for me to play (smaller scale), still has good tone and costs no more than about $2000 USD. Optionally I'd like a cut-away and built-in electronics but those are not crucial.

Looking forward to seeing what you guys think.

[ljguitar]

Hi Chaduke…
First of all, hello and welcome to the forum! We are glad to have a seasoned veteran player here.

If you are committed to the thumb wrap, I'd suggest looking for one of the old Gibsons with a 1 5/8'' (1 10/16'') nut width guitars. Very popular with them in the 1970s and I have a friend with one who he can easily wrap his thumb on that-but not on a standard 1 11/16'' or 1 3/4'' neck.

I'm not sure if they still build them. You might also contact the builder at Worland Guitars, and see if he'd alter one of his Prairie models to that size neck for you and keep you in a handbuilt for your budget.

Just some thoughts...

Hope this helps...

[Chaduke]

Thanks Larry. Amazing that 1/16 of an inch makes a big difference. I have a few friends with older Gibson's so I'll definitely follow up on that.
Will also check out Worland, thanks much.

[SuperB23]

Welcome to the AGF as well.

I think the new Gibson Dove models have the 1 5/8" nut width as well, they might be worth a look. I always liked that Red finished maple on the back of the Dove models.

I had a Santa Cruz PJ which is their parlor guitar and it had a 1 11/16" nut width and the whole guitar was very comfortable to play due to its small size but they are hard to find used and pricey new. The they are very resonant great quality guitars!!

[Jihyun]

I've got two words for you, well actually one:

Blueridge

[bkharmony]

Gibson 16" Jumbos (like the J-185) have a smaller neck, and they're quite cool. Good vintage rock/blues vibe.

Yamahas are known for having small necks. Some Gretsch acoustics do, as well. I've got a Jumbo Rancher with a pretty small nut. Good look, nice player. Reasonably priced.

You can also get a Build-to-Order Taylor with a 1-11/16 neck. Should be small enough for thumb-wrapping.

[Chaduke]

Those Blueridge are certainly beautiful instruments. They have the same size as my current guitar. My Taylor is 1-11/16 at the nut with a 25.5 in scale.

Making this post really got me thinking about the problem I'm having and how to approach it. Part of me says to just forget about using the thumb and figure out a way to get the sound I want without it. Then I start thinking about how I don't want to miss out on playing it the "right way". Of course this is all subjective but I think it would bother me regardless.

I was doing some experimenting last night and trying to isolate where I'm having issues. I'm curious to know how many people can comfortably do these sorts of things on their own guitar.

Say for instance, you play a G barre chord shape across the 3rd fret. Now you take that same shape, but wrap the thumb around for the G bass note on the low E. You basically omit the A string by muting it with the edge of the thumb and then you have ring finger on the D string, middle on the G, and index barring the B and high E.

For this shape I can hold the G bass note with the thumb and hold down my ring and middle on the D and G, but cant get my index all the way down to barre the B and E. Or I can do the opposite and hold down the B and E strings fairly well but then I can't get my middle and ring fingers down.

I keep looking for it to be a problem with my technique, like maybe its the way I'm holding the guitar or sitting but I've yet to find a way to get it to work. I'm thinking my fingers are just too short to reach.

I'm curious to hear about what happens when you guys try the same thing.

[itscowfun]

wow, well first welcome to the forum! (i say that but im new to posting myself haha).

i said "wow" because you basically described me. i play and enjoy a lot of tommy emmanuel/ chet atkins stuff and nothing stops me dead in my tracks or deters me more from learning a song than not being able to thumb wrap or form chords tommy can.

in any case, i am of average height and size i think (5'10" ish), and i play all my stuff on my larrivee OM-09. full scale, 1 3/4 nut. plays and sounds fantastic but sometimes i wish either my hands were bigger or my fretboard was thinner.

in that department, ive played a few guitars that helped. any of the martin 000 sized guitars helped since they are shorter scale and many have the slightly narrower nut. (note: im a huge OM man myself so this wasnt a huge transition).

sometimes a short scale parlor or 00 sized guitar could do it for me too but soundwise im much more partial to a full scale.

in retrospect, maybe my post wasnt so helpful but id post for a tommy fan. after a long GASing using the inability to form clean sounding chords as an excuse, i found that when i got home and played my beautiful sounding (and looking) larrivee that i didnt need a new guitar....

....yet, anyways.

[Hack Amatuer]

I find personally that the dreadnaughts tend to smother it's treble out with base. That's prolly why many will mute the base strings with the palm side. I would reccommend an OM or OOO for finger pickin and a wider neck tends to help.

[Chaduke]

Are these OM, OOO sizes something that originated with Martin? I've never been much of a gear head, and the majority of my experience has been with electric guitars and amps. The acoustic world is still relatively new to me.

This weekend I'll be in New Orleans so I plan on heading out to a few shops and trying out some different guitars. Talking about this stuff has really got me fired up. I can't say that I've ever really spent a lot of time comparing tone and feel of acoustics like I have with electrics. Its almost like starting to play the guitar all over again.

[macfawlty]

Man, if you like your Taylor, you'd probably like another one. You can get a slim neck profile as I did on my jumbo. Taylor has a variety of neck profiles. THe question is whether stock models have differing neck profiles or whether you have to do a BTO. My 314ce feels like it has a very slim neck profile.

I don't know if using your thumb is that necessary. I hardly ever use mine. I don't see it used as much with acoustic than with electric.

[Chaduke]

Macfawlty - the Merle / Chet style of alternating bass notes uses the thumb quite a bit. You can do without it, but you have to figure out different ways of pulling it off, sometimes involving switching your fretting hand around really fast.
In some situations, using the thumb is essentially giving you an extra finger on the fretboard - 5 where you normally have 4. Some shapes are just plain impossible to make without the thumb.

I can't speak completely from personal experience yet, but one thing that really bothered me is when I got Marcel Dadi's video covering the Merle Travis style a few weeks ago. He was demonstrating a few chord shapes in the beginning using the thumb and also using just two fingers to make the E major and A minor open chords. He basically said "you'll never get that authentic sound unless you do it this way." I only have to assume he knows what he's talking about. The question for me would be to what degree it really makes a difference.

[220volt]

Originally Posted by Chaduke

Macfawlty - the Merle / Chet style of alternating bass notes uses the thumb quite a bit. You can do without it, but you have to figure out different ways of pulling it off, sometimes involving switching your fretting hand around really fast.
In some situations, using the thumb is essentially giving you an extra finger on the fretboard - 5 where you normally have 4. Some shapes are just plain impossible to make without the thumb.

I can't speak completely from personal experience yet, but one thing that really bothered me is when I got Marcel Dadi's video covering the Merle Travis style a few weeks ago. He was demonstrating a few chord shapes in the beginning using the thumb and also using just two fingers to make the E major and A minor open chords. He basically said "you'll never get that authentic sound unless you do it this way." I only have to assume he knows what he's talking about. The question for me would be to what degree it really makes a difference.

I feel your pain and I can tell you that there's no getting around the fact that practice and lot of work will make it.. well work.
If Muriel Anderson can do it with her small hands on a wide neck, anyone can. But I would never change guitar brands and compromise the sound of a guitar that I love, just so I can fret with my thumb little earlier then what I would be able to with little more work.
I play similar style of music as you are, and I've start using thumb-over only few weeks ago, but I can already feel getting easier every day.
We will probably never fret like Tommy Emmanuel unless our hands and fingers get deformed like his are.

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

...If you are committed to the thumb wrap, I'd suggest looking for one of the old Gibsons with a 1 5/8'' (1 10/16'') nut width guitars. Very popular with them in the 1970s and I have a friend with one who he can easily wrap his thumb on that-but not on a standard 1 11/16'' or 1 3/4'' neck.

I'm not sure if they still build them. You might also contact the builder at Worland Guitars, and see if he'd alter one of his Prairie models to that size neck for you and keep you in a handbuilt for your budget....

I work on playing Tommy Emmanuel stuff and I have found that it is a lot easier to play on my wife's old 1965 Gibson LG-0 with a short scale and 1.625" nut width. Here is an LG1 on Ebay that's not too badly priced: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=263602_263622

Regards, Glenn

[ocmcook]

takamine also has some 1 5/8 nut models. i have a an-16 dred with this size nut