Classical Guitars

Coke_zero · #1 10-12-2009, 01:01 PM

I visited my local guitar shop today just to buy some essentials and got playing on a classical guitar. It was great fun and it has been years since I really played one. After scratching my head for a little bit I decided I want one...

Now the big question... which one?

I have never played a Taylor classical which is really what this thread is about. Do Taylor nylon strung guitars match up to Spanish made ones? Are they value for money or are you paying for the name?

Any recommendations would be great (Taylor or not).

I have no real knowledge on classical guitars, so I am hoping you all can help me make an informed decision. My only real criteria is it has to be rosewood back and side (or anything but mahogany really).

Thanks guys.

Glennwillow · #2 10-12-2009, 01:39 PM

I am not a classical player, so the value of my comments should be taken into account. I'm a steel string player that plays a nylon string guitar a couple of times a week because I want that sound for Bossa Nova or some cool jazz standard.

I had a Takamine 132C and could never get used to the 2" nut width. I traded it in for a Taylor NS34CE (with 1 7/8" nut width), which to my ears has a better sounding pickup system. However, this guitar is not a true classical guitar; it's a hybrid for steel string players like me. It has a pretty decent pickup sound and sounds even better run through a Fishman Aura preamp to use the classical guitar program.

Really good classical guitars are pretty expensive, much more than this Taylor NS34CE cost. So for me, this is a compromise that gets me what I want for reasonable cost. It does not have the most alive acoustic sound on the planet and it's not very loud, but the more I play it, the better I make it sound. There is a lot you can do with the right technique.

Enjoy the hunt!
- Glenn

David Hilyard · #3 10-12-2009, 01:47 PM

The short answer is, no, Taylor nylon string guitars are not much like a Spanish classical guitar. They are heavier built and sound like a nylon string guitar vs a classical guitar. They have a narrower fingerboard than traditional classical guitars. This is a good thing for some players and not so good for others. It may be good for you if you are used to playing steel string guitars.

This is a good guide, written by Tom Prisloe, who builds great classicals as well as imports a student line called Pavan, from Spain. I haven't played Pavans, but have heard good things about them.

http://classicalguitarbuilder.com/ma...ewsletter.html

In general, you should seek out lots of candidates, play them and select what does it for you. You should mention your price range and what kind of music you play and sound you want, if you'd like specific recommendations. A deep subject.

Misifus · #4 10-12-2009, 01:49 PM

I played a Martin classical (00-16C) exclusively from 1978 to 2003. However, these guitars haven't been made since the 1960's. My (limited) experience with the Taylors suggests that they are a somewhat different critter than a true classical. I suggest you try both and see which floats your boat.

-Raf

Christian Reno · #5 10-12-2009, 01:51 PM

There are a bunch to chose from, but the Taylors are crossover guitars, not really classical guitars. They have 1 7/8 nuts rather than the 2" nut that you will find on classical guitars. Sounds like you are a steel string lpayer, so this might be a good match for you.

You are looking for something other than mahogany, so you might try the maple Taylor. I have never liked Maple steel string guitars, but I really like my maple Taylor nylon string. I have an NS62CE.

They are expensive, but if you watch for used ones,you can find a deal. I got mine used but in perfect condition, for less than half the list price.

wcap · #6 10-12-2009, 02:06 PM

I bought a classical guitar about 4 years ago. I tried out pretty much every classical guitar (up to about $3500 - I did not consider the more expensive small builder classicals) in a quality shop that has a lot more classicals than most places do.

I carefully tried out Bernabe, Loriente, and some others. I ended up with a Burguet, which was about a third the price of many of the others, and really seemed to me to be the best of the bunch regardless of price. I tried out about 7 of these Burguets and they varied quite a bit. There were some that did not impress me, and others that were good, but there were two that stood out, and I went with what I thought was the best of these two. It is a great guitar that I have played a LOT. Wonderful tone, good volume, very responsive. And it was not expensive, as these things go. I have recently heard though that they have tripled in price since I got mine.

If you are not wanting to go into those sorts of price ranges, there are a variety of decent less expensive classicals that can be found in a GOOD guitar store (most guitar shops I have been in have pretty poor selections of classicals). A brand that stands out in my mind is LaPatrie, made by the same folks who make Seagulls. Like the Seagulls, these are much nicer guitars than their very reasonable prices would suggest. They don't sing quite like my Burguet, but they are darn nice instruments that are set up well, play well, and sound good, especially considering the price.

I have read on the Web (and everything on the Web is true, right?) that unless you are going to go with a very expensive classical, you will probably get a better classical guitar if you go with a cedar top than if you buy a moderately priced spruce top classical. This web site suggested though that in the more expensive classicals, some of the spruce top classicals are the best. I don't know how valid this is, but I do know that in the price range I was looking at the cedar top classicals were indeed sounding better to me than the spruce top ones. Or maybe this cedar vs. spruce thing is a bunch of baloney. I don't know.

The cedar vs spruce decision probably mostly comes down to what sound you want. In general, I don't think it would be correct to say that one is better. They are just different.

aragorn · #7 10-12-2009, 02:06 PM

A note on Tom Prisloe's advice - I happen to share his opinion that Spanish-built classical guitars in the three to low-four figure price range that he describes are very hard to beat indeed.

We own two guitars that match this description, although neither is his brand.

Spanish brands that I've personally played and liked include Almansa, Raimundo, and Alhambra. You'll note in my signature that we own one each from the first two...

I've played probably a dozen other brands sourced from the Far East over the years, and none came close in either tone or value for the dollar.

My 2 cents. As always, YMMV.

In addition to trying one of Tom's imports, you might also shop here: http://www.classicalguitarshop.com/. I have no affiliation with any vendor, for the record.

Good luck, and Happy Shopping!

-brian

wcap · #8 10-12-2009, 02:15 PM

One more thing...

If you plan to get a classical guitar, you ought to seriously consider growing your nails out on the right hand a bit. Good right hand nails, in conjunction with good technique, make all the difference in the sort of tone you will be able to get out of a classical guitar. Really. Good nails are a big big deal when playing a classical guitar. With good nails I can make the guitar really sing. Without them my tone and volume are significantly worse.

Maintaining good nails requires more or less daily attention (e.g. smoothing out rough spots or cracks that develop as soon as possible), and having them shaped right and very smooth makes a difference. Personally, I don't think they have to be as long as what I see on some player's hands - I keep mine just long enough so that I can pick the strings with little if any contact between the strings and the fleshy parts of my fingers.

With good nails and good technique you can get simply wonderful sounds out of a good classical guitar. If I was forced to have only one gutiar, I think it would probably be a classical.

Edit: By the way, I find that trying to keep my nails too long is counterproductive. If I keep them just long enough to have people start to wonder why my nails are so long, but not so long that I look like I really ought to be putting nail polish on them, they work well for me for guitar playing, and they are not too vulnerable to breaking. If I let them grow out too long though the risk of breaking them gets much higher, and then I end up with a disastrous break that leaves me with an overly short and not very useful nail for awhile while I wait for it to grow back.

And, as I have mentioned in other threads, my tool of choice for maintaining good nails is the Revlon Shape N' Buff. It is great. I have several at home, I keep one in my desk at work, and I even pack one when I travel (to be ready to deal with nail issues before they turn into big cracks or breaks).

aragorn · #9 10-12-2009, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wcap

One more thing...

If you plan to get a classical guitar, you ought to seriously consider growing your nails out on the right hand a bit. Good right hand nails, in conjunction with good technique, make all the difference in the sort of tone you will be able to get out of a classical guitar. Really. Good nails are a big big deal when playing a classical guitar. With good nails I can make the guitar really sing. Without them my tone and volume are significantly worse.

Maintaining good nails requires more or less daily attention (e.g. smoothing out rough spots or cracks that develop as soon as possible), and having them shaped right and very smooth makes a difference. Personally, I don't think they have to be as long as what I see on some player's hands - I keep mine just long enough so that I can pick the strings with little if any contact between the strings and the fleshy parts of my fingers.

With good nails and good technique you can get simply wonderful sounds out of a good classical guitar. If I was forced to have only one gutiar, I think it would probably be a classical.

What he said...

I prefer to play with my fingerpad and just a touch of nail, but then, my right hand technique is very much still a work in progress.

-brian

Coke_zero · #10 10-12-2009, 03:26 PM

Thanks for the input guys it will come in handy I promise lol.

It will be a little difficult growing my right hand nails any longer than they are currently. Due to my job, I have to have short nails for health and safety (typical really).

They are fairly long and probably border the limit I can get away with.

I may run up to the major guitar shops in the city tomorrow.

phil_harmonic · #11 10-12-2009, 03:42 PM

I have a Pavan TP-20. All solid wood (spruce top, rosewood B&S), bone nut and saddle. Hard to beat for the money. I bought mine used from a guy with hardshell case for about 1/2 new. No regrets.

Another one in this price range that gets mentioned a lot is the Lucida LG777. I have never played one. I played a nice sounding classical at GC the other day (Ramirez or something like that) but no nothing about them.

I have never played a really good classical so can't comment on how it would compare to mine. I have played the NS Taylors. They are good cross over guitars and would be a good choice for a steel string player and someone wanting to amp it.

Good luck

darylcrisp · #12 10-12-2009, 04:00 PM

I'll tell you the things i've found out over the past year and half. I love the sound of a true nylon string guitar-especially Flamenco. There is a huge difference between Flamenco and Classical(the music and the guitar build and setup), so be aware of that.

Cedar tops give you a good sound from the start(like an opened guitar), the spruce may take some time to open up(Flamenco especially-a year or two of heavy playing). The spruce will give more sharp notes and a higher loft of sound in time.

Here is a great example of classical:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4YngQ49dSw
Ava Vidovic

Here is a great example of Flamenco:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl0Kq...eature=related

Don't expect the great build quality in a Classical or Flamenco(you may see some finish imperfections, some slight build imperfections, but the guitar will play and sound fine)as you would find in a similar cost Martin or taylor steel string-especially the spanish built guitars. I've personally saw some 5-7000$ spanish guitars that had some sloppy build areas, but sounded great.

A very good "student" Classical or Flamenco will cost around $1500-2500. There is a very good builder in Mexico called Francisco Navarro who builds very nice student level guitars for around $1000.

Jim at GuitarRodeo has a nice Ramirez 4E classical (a $4500) spanish built guitar, at a great price(more than half off). Check the reviews, the Ramirez 4E gets excellent reviews-even against the Ramirez 1A($9000).

I've heard the Prisloe imports are good for the $, also Jim Holler at Trinity guitars carrys an excellent reputation and has some of the other mentioned guitars in the other posts.

You might find a good deal with Tom at Lafalseta.com. He carries the Navarro guitars and some others. He sells on commission and may have a nice classical as well for a good price.

The classical has a higher action than a Flamenco, fret buzz is a good thing in limits in Flamenco-actually desired to a degree.

good luck
daryl
That is Ricardo Marlow

wgnorman · #13 10-12-2009, 04:07 PM

I had a Taylor NS32 and still have a Takamine TC135SC - neither are true classical but both are decent crossovers. For me, I found the sound (cooltube 2) of the Tak and playability much better IMHO.

Coke_zero · #14 10-12-2009, 05:32 PM

I think I'm just going to go for what sounds good to me (like I should really). I'm not usually the sort of person who will buy a Martin over a Yamaha because of the name anyway, but with classical guitars it's like buying yor first car; it may be great at first but may turn out to be a complete piece of junk.

TwoMartinMan · #15 10-12-2009, 07:50 PM

I am primarily a classical guitar player (yes, I've got the long fingernails..you really can't play the classical repertoire well without them).
Someone suggested the Lucida Artista LG-777. I own one. Fantastic guitar for the price. I have owned a couple of Jose Ramirez..including the 4E and the 125 Anos. (The 4E is no longer made. It's been replaced by the 4NE.)oth are very good. Also good are the Tom Prisloe (Pavan) guitars and the Loriente guitars. Go with rosewood back and sides. I prefer cedar tops (darker, more romantic Spanish sound)..some prefer spruce tops (brighter sound).
IMO, it can be very challenging to buy a good classical guitar...especially on the used market. They usually have no truss rods in them, so the action is not as easily adjustable as a traditional steel-string. The sound and action can vary widely from instrument to instrument depending on bracing, string choice, wood choice, and craftsmenship. I STRONGLY suggest playing one before buying it.

My 2 cents.