The Acoustic Guitar Forum  

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Amplification (Electrified!!!)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 03-28-2009, 06:17 AM
Doubleneck Doubleneck is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,854
Default Hybrids - is acoustic bridge or electric bridge best

There are two main ways to go with hybrids. There are acoustic bridges on hollow guitars with pickups (Carvin 185) and there are processed electric bridges for acoustic sound (Godin). Any opinions on which is the best compromise.
Steve
__________________
Steve
2001 Michael Keller Koa Baby
2014 Godin Inuk Ambiance
2014 HV Taylor GS Mini !FOR SALE!
2012 Deering B6 Openback Banjo
2012 Emerald Acoustic Doubleneck-Chimaera
2012 Rainsong JM1000 Black Ice
2009 Wechter Pathmaker 9600 LTD
1982 Yairi D-87 Doubleneck
1987 Ovation Collectors
1993 Ovation Collectors
1967 J-45 Gibson
1974 20th Annivers. Les Paul Custom
1978 Carvin Doubleneck
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-28-2009, 10:42 AM
royd royd is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Santa Barbara Wine Country
Posts: 2,821
Default

String type and gauge are also big factors in both sounds as well... A set of 9's will never sound like a good acoustic guitar regardless of any other factors.

I had a Carvin 185 for a while... and the operative word is compromise. If you are looking for a great sounding electric and a great sounding acoustic, you'll be disappointed. If you're looking for something that gives a taste of both and is something else altogether, you'll be happier with it.

I found that to get the best acoustic sound I had to replace the saddle for one compensated for a wound third string and go with that. Then, the electric sound was much weaker. If I wanted more of the electric sound, I went with an unwound third and nickel strings... and the acoustic sound was weaker. I leaned towards the acoustic side and used DR Zebras and got reasonable results from it with both pickup systems but it never gave me what I was unrealistically looking for - a great acoustic and a great electric sound in one guitar.

I would expect that compromise would lean more to the electric side with a typical electric bridge with piezos in the saddles.
__________________
royd
Lowden O25C Custom
Lowden S10P
that's me on guitar
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-28-2009, 11:00 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,112
Default

Hi royd,

What gauge Zebras did you end up going with for the Carvin?

FWIW, when I experimented with mag-responsive acoustic guitar strings, I ended up preferring the GHS White Bronze over the Zebras. That was back when I was using a Wendler MagPi system (which works poorly with bronze strings) in one of my OMs.

Gary
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-28-2009, 01:11 PM
royd royd is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Santa Barbara Wine Country
Posts: 2,821
Default

I think I was using 11's. On my partscaster, I use 9's. On a "real" acoustic I use bluegrass gauge, 12-56, so I was coming down a bit but it still pretty much shot the electric side of the equation. It was pretty close to a realistic acoustic sound though, as close as many acoustic/electrics out there.

Again, I think I may have liked the guitar had I had more realistic expectations. I was hoping for the equivalent of two good guitars -100/100 -and it just wasn't there. If I had been happy with 75/25 or 50/50, or realized that it offered some sounds that neither a pure acoustic nor a pure electric have, it would have been a good purchase.
__________________
royd
Lowden O25C Custom
Lowden S10P
that's me on guitar
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-28-2009, 02:48 PM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,112
Default

Thanks for the benefit of you hybrid guitar experience, royd.

I'm hoping to end up with 11s on the Peavey tele-style hybrid which I just got. I've got 12s on a Wendler "electroCoustic", so I'd prefer to experiment with something a little different on the Peavey. I'm hoping the 11s will do its Graph Tech "Ghost" piezo system justice. While the stock 9s sound good with the Peavey's mag pickups, the "Ghost" is picking up every danged fret buzz with painful clarity.

Gary
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-06-2009, 09:37 AM
John Quinn John Quinn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: N.E. PA
Posts: 385
Default

I am a Acoustic/Electric Hybrid Junky. For years I went on a quest to find the best USA make/model guitars out there. My main guitar for playing with my band is a Hybrid guitar w/stereo output. I always run the acoustic signal to an acoustic amp and then to the PA, and of course the electric pickups to my amp/rig. Here are my experiences. 1-3 are semi-hollow guitars that use traditional acoustic bridges.
1. USA Hamer Duotone Custom. For me, this is the best Hybrid acoustic/electric guitar available. It has a traditional acoustic bridge with exceptional electronics and onboard eq thru backplate. It also features a solid, arched spruce top for best acoustic tone. There are 2 separate outputs one for acoustic bridge and the other for the 2 Seymour Duncan humbuckers. This guitar has it all, it looks killer and plays/sounds excellent.
2. USA Carvin EA185. Basically does the same thing as the Hamer Duotone but at only 1/2 the cost. It also features a traditional acoustic bridge. The only thing I was not happy with is that the Acoustic and Electric outputs share the same active preamp. To me this hampered the acoustic output and made it muddy. The acoustic output had just 1 tone control. After owning 2 AE185's I custom ordered one with different electronics which made this model come alive. I had Carvin make the humbuckers passive with a push/pull on tone knob for single coil sounds, then put in the electronics from their AC175 which has a separate treble and bass control. This helped the AE185 sound much more acoustic.
3. Taylor T5. I am mentioning this model because it attempts to be a hybrid but for my personal application it failed. Don't get me wrong, the T5 is beautiful and plays and feels great. The build quality is exceptional. For me the sounds are not there. Also, you cannot get and electric sound and acoustic sound at the same time so not a true Hybrid. I did have one of my T5's modded with an active under saddle pickup and separate output which did make it sound more acoustic, but the electric tones do not have what I needed.
I will add more to this thread with solid guitars with steel/piezo bridges.
__________________
1997 Tacoma PM20
2000 Martin D-28
2003 Gibson L-200 EmmyLou
2003 Gibson Songbird Deluxe
2004 Taylor 614e-LTD Fall Edition
2007 Taylor GC8e Sunburst
2008 Taylor 514ce
2009 Guild D-50 (Tacoma made)
1979 Fender Strat Antigua
1997 Fender Tele Plus Custom
1987 Gibson Les Paul Standard
1998 Hamer Duotone Custom
2006 Fender 50th Anniversary Strat Deluxe
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-06-2009, 11:50 AM
John Quinn John Quinn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: N.E. PA
Posts: 385
Default

Next are the Steel bridge/peizo electric guitars. Some are semi-hollow and most are solid body guitars.
4. Godin Flat Five X and Montreal. To me these are the best semi-hollow electric/acoustic hybrid guitars with steel peizo bridges. What make them a cut above the rest is the fact they are semi-hollow and have on-board eq. Humbuckers w/5-ways switching makes them very versatile.
5. Godin LGX. Basically same as the Flat Five X and Montreal but in a solid body guitar. Still sounds very good.
6. Parker Fly Deluxe and Nitefly. Have their own unique sound but start getting
a little quacky with peizo snap. Great necks but I started missing wood.
7. Fender USA Power Tele. The peizo sounded good but the noiseless pickups were lacking life. Still a cool guitar with body binding and classic look. Too bad they were short lived.

I also have and use a '90 USA Fender Strat Plus, I bought a LR Baggs acoustic bridge an exact replacement for the American Standard Bridge. All you need is a stereo jack and you now have a hybrid guitar.

To answer your question, I think acoustic bridges are better because you do get a better acoustic tone.
__________________
1997 Tacoma PM20
2000 Martin D-28
2003 Gibson L-200 EmmyLou
2003 Gibson Songbird Deluxe
2004 Taylor 614e-LTD Fall Edition
2007 Taylor GC8e Sunburst
2008 Taylor 514ce
2009 Guild D-50 (Tacoma made)
1979 Fender Strat Antigua
1997 Fender Tele Plus Custom
1987 Gibson Les Paul Standard
1998 Hamer Duotone Custom
2006 Fender 50th Anniversary Strat Deluxe

Last edited by John Quinn; 04-06-2009 at 12:56 PM. Reason: info
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-06-2009, 05:29 PM
Doubleneck Doubleneck is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,854
Default

John, I am looking at a spruced topped Godin Flat Five. Can't play it first, will the acoustic sound be acceptable for a praise band setting?
Steve
__________________
Steve
2001 Michael Keller Koa Baby
2014 Godin Inuk Ambiance
2014 HV Taylor GS Mini !FOR SALE!
2012 Deering B6 Openback Banjo
2012 Emerald Acoustic Doubleneck-Chimaera
2012 Rainsong JM1000 Black Ice
2009 Wechter Pathmaker 9600 LTD
1982 Yairi D-87 Doubleneck
1987 Ovation Collectors
1993 Ovation Collectors
1967 J-45 Gibson
1974 20th Annivers. Les Paul Custom
1978 Carvin Doubleneck
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-07-2009, 08:33 AM
John Quinn John Quinn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: N.E. PA
Posts: 385
Default

Steve,
yes it will, the spruce top is a key factor. Remember you can always put a wound "G" string on any hybrid electric/acoustic guitar as Royd suggested, to help make the sound more acoustic. Also playing the piezo acoustic output thru an acoustic amp or straight to the PA will sound best. Godin Flat Five X guitars are great. If you get it and down the road decide to get rid of it, give me a call.
John
570-878-9906
__________________
1997 Tacoma PM20
2000 Martin D-28
2003 Gibson L-200 EmmyLou
2003 Gibson Songbird Deluxe
2004 Taylor 614e-LTD Fall Edition
2007 Taylor GC8e Sunburst
2008 Taylor 514ce
2009 Guild D-50 (Tacoma made)
1979 Fender Strat Antigua
1997 Fender Tele Plus Custom
1987 Gibson Les Paul Standard
1998 Hamer Duotone Custom
2006 Fender 50th Anniversary Strat Deluxe
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-08-2009, 08:29 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,112
Default

I've been playing around with a Peavy Generation EXP for a week or two now: Tele body style, two splitable humbuckers with five way switch, Graph Tech "Ghost" hex system with Peavy's own "acoustic modeling technology".

As an electric guitar, it was an incredible bargain for what I paid on ebay. The "acoustic" side is unusable by itself, however, because the string volume balance is grossly weighted toward the bass strings. (This is currently with 11s. I'll probably try 12s or even 13s at some point.) The good news is that blending in a bit of piezo really does enhance the mag sound noticeably. If I put the mag signal at full-on volume (with the mag tone control at full-on treble) and blend in the appropriate amount of piezo, I get a darn nice sounding blend - better than any of the pure mag sounds, for my own taste. I'm using an outboard preamp for some EQ and volume control, then running to my solid-state Fishman SoloAmp.

In fairness to the Graph Tech Ghost system, this unbalanced string volume balance is not at all what I found with a Ghost-equipped Jarrett Zaphiro (Les Paul style guitar) which I briefly owned. Peavy's "acoustic modeling", whatever it is, sounds like they added an SBT on the bass side of the bridge plate. In addition to that, what treble end there is sounds very brittle without any mag signal blended in. Its as if the very high frequencies have been boosted to compensate for an electric guitar amp's poor high end response. That could actually be the case, I suppose.

FWIW, I also experimented with using a stereo-to-Y cable to take the mag and piezo signals out separately for separate EQ before blending at the SoloAmp. I found that blending at the guitar and EQing the resultant blend worked just as well (and was much more convenient) for my own purposes.


Since I'm running to a solid-state acoustic guitar amp, my eventual plan is to get a Blackstar HT-Dual pedal for some experimentation with various clean and distorted tube tones. I'm also considering the possibility that adding some high-end even harmonics, via an Aphex Xciter, might give my mag/piezo sound more "edge" on the high end for barefingered picking.

I can't help thinking about what a weird role reversal it is that I'm using a piezo pickup to get a strong, well-defined bass end while the mag provides most of the high end. With a conventional mag/piezo equipped acoustic-electric, the piezo usually provides the high end while the mag captures the lows.

Gary

Last edited by guitaniac; 04-08-2009 at 08:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-11-2009, 07:03 AM
Jack Dotson Jack Dotson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 96
Default

Glad to see some discussion on the hybrid guitars. Like JQ, I've been on the search for the best hybrid. I also totally agree with his assessment of the Taylor T-5. It would be the perfect guitar if only it sounded better, but no cigar IMO. I really wanted a Gibson Chet Atkins SST, but found it too hard and expensive to obtain, so I've all but ruled it out.

Although I haven't seen them mentioned and have yet to see one in the stores, I would like to try one of the Fender Stratacoustic/Teleacoustic deluxe's. I tried one of the new 2009 Standard Stracoustic's the other day and they're as Fender claims "much improved". As a matter of fact, I'll probably pick one up just because they offer so much bang for the buck. I was able to dial in a nice acoustic tone with little effort and even unplugged it sounded decent with an ovation type of sound. Played like a Strat.

The best I've tried so far was easily the Godin Multiac Spectrum. I really want one of these. They're out of my price range at the moment, but are currently my holy grail of hybrids. Next best thing was the Godin A6 Ultra, which is also much improved over the previous A6 IMO and I bought one of these. The neck is a little thin and flat for my taste, but I'm getting used to it.

I noticed the recommended strings on the various model differ substantially, i.e. some acoustic, some electric, different gages. I'm curious what strings you guys have found to work best? Godin recommends pure nickel 10's for my A6 Ultra, but I put on a set of D'Addario EXP-10 acoustics and like them better. The Piezo tends to get a bit snappy and IMO a wound 3rd seems to help. What are your thoughts?

I also agree with JQ's statement about the requirement for two outputs. I run my A6 through a Nova delay with stereo output. I run the electric output (HB) into my JC-77 (beautiful chorus) and the acoustic (Piezo) into my Yamaha Stage-pass-300 PA. I also take the stereo outputs of the JC-77 and run them into two channels of my PA as well. Full stereo delay and chorus with the ability to adjust the volume and EQ for both guitar PU's.

My little room sounds like a concert hall.
__________________
Gear: Taylor GC5, Bedell TB-18-G & MB-28-G, American Deluxe Tele, American Standard Strat, Classic Vibe 50ís Strat, Fender Custom 68 Reverb, Bad Cat Cougar 15, Vox Pathfinder, Fishman Loud Box Mini.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-12-2009, 08:43 AM
Jack Dotson Jack Dotson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 96
Default

I just wanted to add a quick update to my last post. A friend brought over his Taylor T-5 and after some adjustments and using my equipment, which of course I'm familiar with, I was able to nail some great acoustic tones. The electric sound is certainly not a classic sound, but although different, still enjoyable.

This guitar takes some getting used to and is different, but is nice when dialed in. And man, does this thing play like a dream or what? I didn't want to put it down.

I guess the moral of this story is that it's hard to accurately assess a guitar until you use it in your environment. I'll be moving my Epi and Godin to get one, I'm that impressed.
__________________
Gear: Taylor GC5, Bedell TB-18-G & MB-28-G, American Deluxe Tele, American Standard Strat, Classic Vibe 50ís Strat, Fender Custom 68 Reverb, Bad Cat Cougar 15, Vox Pathfinder, Fishman Loud Box Mini.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-18-2009, 10:05 PM
davidl13 davidl13 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 41
Default custom hybrid

FYI, in my quest for a hybrid, i ended up creating my own...

I took a gibson es 446, custom shop...FULL hollow, spruce top, i piece mahogany back and sides, trapeze tailpiece and mounted an RMC piezo system in it, knobs are volume tone mag (dual humbucker), volume tome piezo..

it has a single stereo jack that when used with a mono cable, mixes both pickups and stereo cable splits the outputs....

the strings make a big difference, with 12 gague zebras it sounds very good, but i am trying to switch to 10's for more electric playingm so the jury is still out...

due to its full hollow nature, it is a very resonant guitar... the best hybrid i have heard yet, but i definately have not heard them all...
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-19-2009, 05:52 AM
Road Trip Road Trip is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Philadelphia Region
Posts: 49
Default Jack - regarding the Gibson Chet....

A Gibson Chet Atkins SST has been my main guitar for the last 7 years or so. I am always checking ebay to get another one and they can be found for $900 - $1100 (a little more for better condition)....so I don't consider them expensive compared to a T5. BUT - I did send mine to Fishman for an upgrade to the matrix pickup (the stock Gibson is not great).


I don't consider the Chet a hybrid like the AE185 or Duotone....but it has the perfect sound for what I am doing....I play in a melodic original rock band with female vocalist. I want the "pretty" acoustic sound, but I also want lots of punch and a bit of "brassiness".

I also owned a Guild Peregrine (beautiful guitar) for the same purpose, but it was more acoustic sounding and didn't cut through the band enough. I also didn't like the volume / tone slider controls. These are very hard to find and I sold mine for a lot more than I paid for it so it is probably a bit high in proce - but no more than the USA made Duo - Tone, I would think.

I just got a Turner Renaissance RS6; and it is a stunning guitar to look at, very light, and has a wonderful sound; very acoustic. I will enjoy this guitar for years - but it will never replace the Chet as a "band" guitar because it doesn't have the punch of the Chet.

I played T5s several times; I am a Taylor fan so I was hoping it would replace my Gibson, but it does not have the same feel. Like the Rs6 it is light, but to me it feels "lightweight" if you know what I mean.

I have toyed with ordering an AE185, but the way I would want it would push towards $1800 and I have never had one in my hands, so that worries me a bit.

I played a Duo Tone once, liked it - but I don't really need the electric sound for band work....and if I want to play electric I can pick up my Tele. My band mates would like to hear electric for my lead playing occassionally, so I won't rule one out at the right price.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-02-2009, 01:58 PM
Jack Dotson Jack Dotson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 96
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road Trip View Post
A Gibson Chet Atkins SST has been my main guitar for the last 7 years or so. I am always checking ebay to get another one and they can be found for $900 - $1100 (a little more for better condition)....so I don't consider them expensive compared to a T5. BUT - I did send mine to Fishman for an upgrade to the matrix pickup (the stock Gibson is not great).


I don't consider the Chet a hybrid like the AE185 or Duotone....but it has the perfect sound for what I am doing....I play in a melodic original rock band with female vocalist. I want the "pretty" acoustic sound, but I also want lots of punch and a bit of "brassiness".

I also owned a Guild Peregrine (beautiful guitar) for the same purpose, but it was more acoustic sounding and didn't cut through the band enough. I also didn't like the volume / tone slider controls. These are very hard to find and I sold mine for a lot more than I paid for it so it is probably a bit high in proce - but no more than the USA made Duo - Tone, I would think.

I just got a Turner Renaissance RS6; and it is a stunning guitar to look at, very light, and has a wonderful sound; very acoustic. I will enjoy this guitar for years - but it will never replace the Chet as a "band" guitar because it doesn't have the punch of the Chet.

I played T5s several times; I am a Taylor fan so I was hoping it would replace my Gibson, but it does not have the same feel. Like the Rs6 it is light, but to me it feels "lightweight" if you know what I mean.

I have toyed with ordering an AE185, but the way I would want it would push towards $1800 and I have never had one in my hands, so that worries me a bit.

I played a Duo Tone once, liked it - but I don't really need the electric sound for band work....and if I want to play electric I can pick up my Tele. My band mates would like to hear electric for my lead playing occassionally, so I won't rule one out at the right price.

Thanks for the info. I've been able to really dial in my A6 Ultra and for the price I thinks it's a heck of nice guitar. It can even do a decent hollow body sound. However, I'm just not a fan of the Godin necks. My son used to have a LGX and I like how it sounded too, but never could get used to the neck on it either. I like the A6 so much that I took a chance, but no cigar.

I've got the chance to pick-up a practically new Parker PWH-2 for a pretty good price, but I'm thinking maybe I should just hold out until I sale my Godin and have the cash to try the SST.

You have any experience with the PWH-2? Anyone have experience with this guitar? I asked about it on another thread and got one response and the guy told me it wasn't nearly as good as my A6, so that gave me reason for pause. They look to be a really good deal, but it they sound like crap, then who cares?
__________________
Gear: Taylor GC5, Bedell TB-18-G & MB-28-G, American Deluxe Tele, American Standard Strat, Classic Vibe 50ís Strat, Fender Custom 68 Reverb, Bad Cat Cougar 15, Vox Pathfinder, Fishman Loud Box Mini.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Amplification (Electrified!!!)

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Loading

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=