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  #1  
Old 10-07-2008, 04:57 AM
rmyAddison rmyAddison is offline
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Default THE BOSE/FISHMAN A/B IS ON! 10/8 N. Dallas

Howdy,

Please attend if you live in the Metroplex!

I was really worried this would have to be postponed, GC has been selling out the SoloAmps the day they get them in, but I checked yesterday and my store has set aside two SoloAmps for the A/B, available for sale after I would guess. And, the Fishman rep is in town and will be there to answer questions, cool!

What are we going to do? This can't be a double blind test (which I love with home theater equipment) but we will A/B:

1) L1w/bass module and SoloAmp
2) L1w/bass module and SoloAmp w/sub
3) L1w/bass module and 2 SoloAmps

All setups will be checked with my trusty Radio Shack SPL and brough to the same volume. We will use live and canned music. I'll be the default performer and bring a few high end Martins (one Aura to go direct, and one dread to mike) and good condensors mikes but gigging forum members are welcome to contribute. I want to "hear" more than play so if we have some talent show up introduce yourself and I'll put you to work!

We will have a board set up with vocal mike, instrument mike, instrument direct, and CD player, and will be able to instantly switch between systems SPL'd to identical volumes. The room is large, easily the size of many bars/nightclubs, with very high ceilings, we will be able to "crank it up".

This is not meant to be an equipment battle but a comparison of tools of the trade. I would love to have some Bose users attend and maybe even ensure we get the best out of the tone engine settings.

I will be there by 6 PM to set up the board and systems. If you are in the Dallas Metroplex please try to attend, even if you are not interested in either system you can meet forum members.

Please reply if you plan to attend, thanks, looking forward to meeting some of you!

Rich

7PM Wednesday 10/8, in the live sound reinforcement room
Guitar Center North Dallas
4519 LBJ Freeway (north access road between Welsh and Midway)
Farmers Branch, Texas 75244
Phone: 972-960-0011
Fax: 972-960-2067
Manager: Jonathan Hernandez
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Old 10-07-2008, 07:02 AM
Herb Hunter Herb Hunter is offline
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What are the approximate dimensions of the test room?

Do you plan to run one of the comparison tests with both systems (including the guitar) set flat?
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Old 10-07-2008, 07:36 AM
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cotten cotten is offline
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I would LOVE to be there, and look forward to hearing everyone's totally unbiased impressions.

Like that's gonna happen! Still, an A/B like this should prove very interesting.

cotten
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Old 10-07-2008, 08:18 AM
MikeTX MikeTX is offline
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Default Yes

Yes Rich, I will be there - look forward to meeting you in person, and hearing what there is to hear.

I used my SoloAmp Sep 20 inside solo, Oct 3 outside solo, and Oct 4 outside 4-piece band. It sounded very good, with plenty of volume and coverage in all situations so far. I "forgot" about my equipment with it, as I always have with my Bose system, which I consider good.

Totally honest - not definitive yet, but my gut feel right no is that the tone from the Fishman seems more natural and warm than the Bose, and I'm thinking I will be using it in all performance situations. And that's saying a LOT coming from THIS Bose fan.

See you tomorrow, and thanks again for setting this up.

Mike

(also, please try to remember to include a SECOND SUB with the Bose...)
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Old 10-07-2008, 08:50 AM
rmyAddison rmyAddison is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb Hunter View Post
What are the approximate dimensions of the test room?

Do you plan to run one of the comparison tests with both systems (including the guitar) set flat?
Herb,

I'm sorry I have no exact dimensions for the room, I will ask tomorrow. It's a decent size, two stories high, they have a big wall of PA speakers for demo, a stage for their ongoing drum shootout, and use the room to demo PA's so it is not small, not huge but certainly big enough to do a demo of these smallish systems, they demo the big systems in it all the time.

We will start out flat but will certainly EQ to get the best sound, and then SPL to maintain equal volumes. I know how critical volume levels are in home theater testing, my sincere goal is to be neutral and get the best out of each system. I really hope some "players" show up so I can engineer more than perform. I'm excited.
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Martin OM-18 Authentic '33 Adirondack/Mahogany
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Martin CS 00-42 Adirondack/Madagascar
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Old 10-07-2008, 08:53 AM
rmyAddison rmyAddison is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cotten View Post
I would LOVE to be there, and look forward to hearing everyone's totally unbiased impressions.

Like that's gonna happen! Still, an A/B like this should prove very interesting.

cotten
Cotten,

Opinion on "sound" is always personal preference, that's unavoidable. Room fill, naturalness of sound, clarity, frequecy response can be somewhat more objective. We will do our best to be "open minded", promise!
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Martin OM-18 Authentic '33 Adirondack/Mahogany
Martin CS OM-28 Alpine/Madagascar
Martin CS 00-42 Adirondack/Madagascar
Martin OM-45TB (2005) Engelmann/Tasmanian Blackwood (#23 of 29)
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Old 10-07-2008, 08:57 AM
rmyAddison rmyAddison is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeTX View Post
Yes Rich, I will be there - look forward to meeting you in person, and hearing what there is to hear.

I used my SoloAmp Sep 20 inside solo, Oct 3 outside solo, and Oct 4 outside 4-piece band. It sounded very good, with plenty of volume and coverage in all situations so far. I "forgot" about my equipment with it, as I always have with my Bose system, which I consider good.

Totally honest - not definitive yet, but my gut feel right no is that the tone from the Fishman seems more natural and warm than the Bose, and I'm thinking I will be using it in all performance situations. And that's saying a LOT coming from THIS Bose fan.

See you tomorrow, and thanks again for setting this up.

Mike

(also, please try to remember to include a SECOND SUB with the Bose...)
Mike,

Glad you're going to make it, I may try to put you to work so I can play sound tech some of the time.

I cannot promise a second sub for the Bose but I will try, and the Fishman folks keep saying a sub is not necessary for the SoloAmp when used for acoustic guitar and vocals, we will see.

See you tomorrow, looking forward to meeting you too, I'm bringing a few of my Martin babies (OMC Aura, 175th Anniversary America's Guitar, and the cannon, D-18GE).
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Martin OM-18 Authentic '33 Adirondack/Mahogany
Martin CS OM-28 Alpine/Madagascar
Martin CS 00-42 Adirondack/Madagascar
Martin OM-45TB (2005) Engelmann/Tasmanian Blackwood (#23 of 29)
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Old 10-07-2008, 09:44 AM
MikeTX MikeTX is offline
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Default Good Deal

Sure Rich,

I'll play a little, although I hope to do a lot of listening!

My sense and brief experiences are that a sub actually is NOT needed with the SoloAmp - which I find pretty amazing really. The reason I keep mentioning the 2nd sub for the Bose, is that similarly, or maybe it's conversely - to make the Bose sound best, for acoustic guitar and male vocal, the 2nd sub is simply essential. I'm hoping for with this A/B is to hear the Fishman, tuned to ITS best, compared to the Bose, tuned to ITS best.

However, I am also very interested to hear the SoloAmp WITH the sub as you plan, just for curiousity. Same thing with hearing TWO SoloAmps, even though I have become a Single-Source-Behind-You devotee, from my 6 year Bose experience.

ALSO... perhaps the biggest appeal of the SoloAmp is its compactness, ease of setup, etc - keeping this in mind is a key point in my opinion, see last paragraph recommendation below.

One last thought - also consider spending a minute hearing the SoloAmp (and possibly the Bose too) with the guitar and mic plugged simply directly in - without the mixer, etc. I found, on both systems, that the pure signal is them at their best. Maybe not real-world, but the most pure, and best sound quality and volume, both products. The SoloAmp has a hiss when you plug in a mixer, or even a DI, and you have to use the 10DB pad. The Bose, when you use a mixer (to run two or more PEOPLE), you lose headroom and tend toward feedback. Now ME... I DO use a mixer into my SoloAmp because I switch guitars a lot and use a harmony device, but I'm just saying - it seems to perform best without the complex signal chain. I do commend your described setup as very convenient for immediate switching during this A/B, but it may introduce some "external stuff" that is not native to these systems, and is not as they are intended to be used. You know, these are not power amps and eqs all of that which your expertise in in - they're much more like simple amps that a guy just plugs a guitar and a mic straight in. Which reminds me, I'd sure like to hear your Getz system too! Maybe we can do that on our own, with my Bose & Fishman some time too.

Thanks, Mike
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Old 10-07-2008, 09:54 AM
rmyAddison rmyAddison is offline
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Mike,

I am open to whatever works best, if the board adds noise then we will go direct with each system, no problem, just won't be able to instantly A/B but we can work around that. I hope we get some more local folks, this will be fun and informative.

If the GB Shen Pro is allowed I'll bring it, you may be surprised....
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Martin OM-18 Authentic '33 Adirondack/Mahogany
Martin CS OM-28 Alpine/Madagascar
Martin CS 00-42 Adirondack/Madagascar
Martin OM-45TB (2005) Engelmann/Tasmanian Blackwood (#23 of 29)
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  #10  
Old 10-07-2008, 12:53 PM
Herb Hunter Herb Hunter is offline
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Which version of the L1 will used for tomorrow's test, the classic, Model I or Model II?

Technically speaking the L1 bass module is not a subwoofer, it is a woofer and the L1 Classic and Model I need it to be able to reproduce frequencies below 110 Hz. The Model II is not sold without a bass module because it needs it for frequencies below 180 Hz. So, to produce the lowest frequencies of a guitar with adequate volume, the L1 needs the bass module whereas the SoloAmp, by virtue of its 4" speakers, can reproduce the low E without any help. The SoloAmp is a two-way system and the Bose becomes a two-way system when paired with a bass module.
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Old 10-07-2008, 02:34 PM
Herb Hunter Herb Hunter is offline
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Without having heard a SoloAmp I'm going to go way out on a limb and predict that:

-The SoloAmp will have greater vertical dispersion (more sound being projected to the ceiling). I suppose a mic will have to be mounted on a long pole to confirm that.

-The SoloAmp will have a very narrow dispersion in the approximate region of 3,300 and 4,000 Hz

-The Bose L1 will have a much broader sweet spot but the SoloAmp's sweet spot won't be quite as narrow as that of more conventional speaker systems.
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Old 10-08-2008, 05:05 AM
rmyAddison rmyAddison is offline
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Tonight's the night, please stop by if you're in the Metroplex!
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Martin OM-18 Authentic '33 Adirondack/Mahogany
Martin CS OM-28 Alpine/Madagascar
Martin CS 00-42 Adirondack/Madagascar
Martin OM-45TB (2005) Engelmann/Tasmanian Blackwood (#23 of 29)
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Old 10-08-2008, 09:51 AM
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Acouple other points with the Bose...:

1. Make sure you are using the right preset for your guitar/pickup, mic, and prerecorded music. One of the advantages of the system are the preset EQ curves designed specifically for a particular instrument, pickup, mic, etc. You can then tweak with the remote control on the Classic or the T1 used with Model 2. NOTE: You can use the T1 with the Classic or Model one, but I woould recommend connecting it to the base using INPUT 3 or INPUT 4, not 1 or 2 which provide the EQ presets and assume you are using the remote control unit.

2. Make sure you have the gain staging correct. Your input gain needs to be correct in order to maximize the efficiency of the final amplifiers. On the Classic, watch the LED next to the input -- It should be green with flashes of yellow -- No red. On the T1 (Required for use with the Model 2), go to "Prefs" and call up the input meters. Also watch the LED just above the trim pot for each channel.

3. Don't back the L1 up against the wall -- Give it a couple feet in the back, and not in a corner.

These suggestions should give you a pretty accurate setup and a fair comparison. Wish I could be there!!!
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Old 10-08-2008, 11:03 AM
rmyAddison rmyAddison is offline
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Gutch,

We will have Bose expertice there, and by chance the Fishman rep will be stopping by, should be interesting and informative..................
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Martin OM-18 Authentic '33 Adirondack/Mahogany
Martin CS OM-28 Alpine/Madagascar
Martin CS 00-42 Adirondack/Madagascar
Martin OM-45TB (2005) Engelmann/Tasmanian Blackwood (#23 of 29)
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  #15  
Old 10-08-2008, 11:59 AM
Herb Hunter Herb Hunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmyAddison View Post
Gutch,

We will have Bose expertice there, and by chance the Fishman rep will be stopping by, should be interesting and informative..................
Which version of the L1 will you be testing?
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