New ES hum, any ideas?

[pieterh]

Hi my friends!

So, I've finally got my Taylor back for the second time after getting the ES-3 upgrade plus some body finish work that they forgot to do the first time. The new ES is so much better than the original, and the neck service etc made the guitar feel like new.

Here's the problem: I have just played a lunch time gig in the smaller venue at the theatre where I work. Assuming the ES to be balanced and so on I plugged into the stage box (multicable) without using a DI. There was a noticeable hum in the PA and monitors which didn't disappear when I connected using a regular guitar cable to my Radial Pz-pre, even when using the ground lift button. For reference I also had my Guild with its Fishman Matrix Natural II (which is why I had the Radial with me) and that was noise/hum free via the Radial.

In order to try and localise the problem we tried connecting the guitar direct to the mixer (a Yamaha 01v96), and the signal then was clean and hum free. Note that the phantom power was switched off on channels 1-4, my guitars were on channels 1 and 2. What we didn't do was try a regular cable into a DI into the stage box.

Could it be an issue with long cable runs despite the "no DI needed" intentions? The hum didn't disappear when we cut the stage and house lights either.

If it is a fault in the ES I'm going to be so pissed, I have been without my guitar for ca 8-9 weeks all told, I don't want to have to send it away again...

Otherwise the gig went well and my colleague who did the sound commented on how much better the new system sounds compared to the old (apart from the hum issue).

[Joe F]

The one time I experienced hum on my third gen ES, it was due to a blown string ground fuse. It hummed at all times when plugged in however, not just with certain setups. You can check this by removing the two screws on the battery compartment, sliding it out a few inches and then temporarily using a straight piece of wire in place of the fuse unless you are volt/ohm meter savvy and can check the fuse itself for continuity or open.

Still, I'm thinking if it was the fuse, it would always hum. Good luck!

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by pieterh

... In order to try and localise the problem we tried connecting the guitar direct to the mixer (a Yamaha 01v96), and the signal then was clean and hum free. ...

I don't see how the Expression System can be at fault given the above result.

I'm not clear on the cables you used. What cable did you use when you plugged the Taylor into the stage box, a TRS to XLR? Was it the same cable you used between the Taylor and the Yamaha?

[pieterh]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

I don't see how the Expression System can be at fault given the above result.

I'm not clear on the cables you used. What cable did you use when you plugged the Taylor into the stage box, a TRS to XLR? Was it the same cable you used between the Taylor and the Yamaha?

Direct to stage box was Taylor's own that came with the guitar. Into the Radial Pz-pre was a regular EWI guitar cable that exhibited no noise when connecting the Guild/Fishman but did hum with the Taylor with or without ground lift on the Radial.

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by pieterh

Direct to stage box was Taylor's own that came with the guitar. Into the Radial Pz-pre was a regular EWI guitar cable that exhibited no noise when connecting the Guild/Fishman but did hum with the Taylor with or without ground lift on the Radial.

I still having trouble understanding the cabling. Unfortunately, I don't know what cable Taylor supplied. Did they provide a TRS to XLR, TRS to TRS or a standerd, unbalanced guitar cable?

The brand of cable doesn't tell me much. In the case of the Guild, by regular, do you mean unbalanced?

Which cable was used to connect the Taylor to the Yamaha and did you use that very same cable when plugging the Taylor into the stage box?

[pieterh]

Taylor to stage box with balanced cable - hum; Taylor direct to mixer with balanced cable - no hum

Guild to Radial preamp/DI with unbalanced cable, balanced from DI to mixer - no hum; Taylor to Radial with same unbalanced cable - hum.

Ho hum...

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by pieterh

Taylor to stage box with balanced cable - hum; Taylor direct to mixer with balanced cable - no hum

Guild to Radial preamp/DI with unbalanced cable, balanced from DI to mixer - no hum; Taylor to Radial with same unbalanced cable - hum.

Ho hum...

One last cable question. Did you use the very same cable when connecting the Taylor to the stage box as when connecting the Taylor to the Yamaha mixer?

[briggleman]

So far, from the hookup's you have described, I could not blame the Taylor ES. Something else is going on with the other devices. You basically ruled out the hum by going straight to the mixer and the radial DI box. Its only when the stage box or some other device is introduced that the hum is heard. I am thinking its a power issue. If you could connect all the devices to the same power source, same outlet, then check it out.

[pieterh]

Hi guys

The cable used for direct connection to the mixer and via the multi was the Taylor balanced lead. When connecting to the Radial the cable was a regular unbalanced guitar lead - and the hum was there regardless of whether or not the ground lift was in - but only from the Taylor, the Guild was clean. Only when connected direct to the mixer (ie not via the stage snake or the Radial pz-pre) was the signal hum-free. The same channel on the mixer was used to exclude that variable.

The same unbalanced cable was used for both the Taylor and the Guild into the Radial which was connected - via the snake - to the adjacent channel on the mixer.

We're pretty savvy when it comes to sound and power sources - it's our job - and I can't see where the Taylor, which is not connected to anything with a mains power source apart from the mixer, would be creating a ground loop.

For what it's worth the hum was directly proportional to the level from the controls, ie volume and eq controls on the guitar affected the hum.

[Herb Hunter]

Assuming the same cable was used between the Taylor and the Yamaha mixer as when the Taylor was connected to the stage box, what were the relative positions of the guitar when the various connections were tried? It could be that induction noise was affecting the neck pickup wherever the guitar was when plugged into the stage box but when you moved the guitar to plug it directly into the Yamaha mixer, it was no longer in the induction field.

[JCTaylor]

I started a thread recently on a buzz I was getting through my brand new 316ce that I couldn't get to go away. The buzz was present whenever we had halogen lights on that were quite a ways away from where we play. We tried a litany of cables, DI boxes, different outlets, checked the string ground fuse, stood in different positions, etc., but we had no luck, so we're settling on killing those lights when we play. The thread is under "Halogen light noise." Good luck!

[pieterh]

Thanks JCTaylor for the tip but turning off the stage lights and those in the room was one of the first things we tried. I think Herb is on to something with induction. The venue has a hearing loop and whenever I do sound in there I am aware of the risk of interference from the magnetic loop. In fact, though the hum wasn't present at the mixer there was a squeal when we turned up the channel and the guitar which of course, in hindsight, must have been due to the hearing loop. Why it hummed on the stage and squealed further back in the room I can't say. And I am embarressed that neither of us thought of the hearing loop issue given that we have encountered the problem with electric guitars many times...

Much of the audience are pensioners so turning off the hearing loop wouldn't have been an option and we were able to mask it between tunes anyway.