Rainsong intonation

invguy921 · #1 03-23-2018, 09:41 AM

I recently bought a Rainsong SGA-12 fret short scale. I was just playing this guitar as I'm off today. Has anyone else noticed the intonation is off up the neck? I capo'd it at the 5th and it goes noticeably sharp. I wonder if this is adjustable? I gotta say I'm really surprised at this from Rainsong. I do understand as I have had a TON of experience (and owned several hundred acoustic guitars) that this is somewhat common with many guitars up the neck, but this is noticeably off...more than I recall ever experiencing with any other.

Anyone have any thoughts on how to correct this?

SprintBob · #2 03-23-2018, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by invguy921

I recently bought a Rainsong SGA-12 fret short scale. I was just playing this guitar as I'm off today. Has anyone else noticed the intonation is off up the neck? I capo'd it at the 5th and it goes noticeably sharp. I wonder if this is adjustable? I gotta say I'm really surprised at this from Rainsong. I do understand as I have had a TON of experience (and owned several hundred acoustic guitars) that this is somewhat common with many guitars up the neck, but this is noticeably off...more than I recall ever experiencing with any other.

Anyone have any thoughts on how to correct this?

I’ve had just the opposite experience with my P-12. Its intonation is spot on all the way up the neck. I love that guitar. I’d advise to get your SGA-12 to a tech or luthier for a set up if you can’t find anything obvious.

jdinco · #3 03-23-2018, 04:57 PM

Is your action/saddle too high?

Carmel Cedar · #4 03-23-2018, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SprintBob

I’ve had just the opposite experience with my P-12. Its intonation is spot on all the way up the neck.

No issue with my P12 either. You probably just need a P12. I can help.

Gaetano · #5 03-23-2018, 06:13 PM

In 2016, I bought a Shorty from Helene and Ted (thanks again). Right out of the shipping box, the setup, including intonation were great. There have been no adjustments or tweaks. Plays easily and sounds good.

So, my experience differs from yours. I play in standard tuning. You?

#6 03-23-2018, 06:21 PM

l would email Rainsong. Something is happening here that does not fit Rainsong quality.

MiG50 · #7 03-23-2018, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by invguy921

I do understand as I have had a TON of experience (and owned several hundred acoustic guitars)

What in the world are you doing with all those guitars?!?

benderman57 · #8 03-23-2018, 06:51 PM

A few years ago I had a rainsong 12 fret dread and the intonation was off the farther up the neck you traveled as you have described here. I had bought it used but I did take it to a really trusted builder/repair person. After going all over it he deemed the bridge had been placed wrong with no easy fix.

If you just played in the first position you would probably never even know. I sold it and divulged the issue with the buyer who was a true beginner and did not have an issue with it.

Was I surprised at this, you bet but I have seen this on cheaper instruments and even a few high end pieces. Had I bought it new I would have returned it.

I've owned 4 other rainsongs and they were all spot on. They were all 14 fret guitars.

Frettingflyer · #9 03-25-2018, 05:17 AM

Both of my Rainsongs, the Shorty and the WS seem to intonate very well up the neck. I second the idea of calling Rainsong, something seems wrong there.

invguy921 · #10 03-25-2018, 05:47 AM

Thank you to all of you who have posted comments and suggestions. So, immediately after beginning this thread I emailed Rainsong to get their thoughts. I was able to have a nice conversation with a guy named Dave who encouraged me to consider buying a different capo. He said that many capos create too much tension (Kyser for example...which I might add is not the capo I use), that ultimately leads to the experience that I was having. He also told me that G7th makes a capo specifically for Rainsong specifications. I found that quite interesting that a company would make a capo specific specifically to certain specifications. I would’ve thought that just about any capo would work for just about any guitar. I have noticed that the other capos the G7th makes are not for specific guitar brands but for all other guitars....hmmm.

That all said, I ordered a capo from G7th to see if that would make a difference. If it does, problem solved. If it doesn’t then my conversation will continue with Rainsong and possibly explore the idea of sending it back. So, that’s the story at this point. When I get the new cable and ultimately a resolution, I will update this thread with the rest of the story.

Thanks again for all of you for commenting and offering help. I appreciate it!

jonfields45 · #11 03-25-2018, 06:03 AM

Rainsongs have a little taller frets than most and the capos I use to perform will push both my Rainsongs sharp if I place them centered between the frets. However when gigging I don't want to play around with a Shub tension screw or for that matter a G7 that won't readily clip to my music stand. I place a Dunlop Trigger capo almost on top of the fret that is to be the new zero. I guess I would rather deal with it in the way while playing than the other hassles.

invguy921 · #12 03-25-2018, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiG50

What in the world are you doing with all those guitars?!?

Hey brother...I don't currently own that many, but you could say that I got REALLY caught up in GAS for a few years and between guitars I was checking out, selling and then selling trades etc. I literally bought and sold several hundred. Not boasting about this as it is a sickness many people have and I had almost a terminal case ha!! But the advantage of that experience is that I have a really good handle on a lot of issues of guitars and certainly understand what I like and what I don't and what choices exist.

This CF guitar is one I bought with the idea I would play it at church, and on outings. It will not be my "go to" guitar, but it needs to be right because in a gig setting you need to be able to use a "quick change" capo and not deal with a guitar that goes out of tune when you do.

So, I just re-read what Dave said and it is here: "G7th makes a version of their Performance 2 capo with a RainSong specific radius. They are excellent capos even without the specific radius because you set the tension each time you put it on. The specific radius one works great all the way up the neck. You can get one through any authorized G7th dealer but it will have to be ordered so it might be easiest to contact them directly."

Also for the record, I could not find a place to buy a capo online or at my local retailer that said it was specifically built to Rainsong specs. I recalled the encouragement to contact G7th directly...

. So, I emailed G7th and asked which capo is made to Rainsong specs and have been waiting to hear from them. I mentioned the G7th capo that I went ahead and bought (in my last post) I ordered from a noted online company. The one I ordered is their Performance series 2...NOT specifically for Rainsong, but I thought seemed like it would be more suitable for many guitars and easy to get on and off in a "rapid change" environment if needed.

I guess the point is this...finding a quick change capo. I don't need or want one that I adjust to tension every time I put it on...LOTS of those out there. So to reiterate, I will post results of all of this when I get some resolution!

Thanks again!

invguy921 · #13 03-25-2018, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonfields45

Rainsongs have a little taller frets than most and the capos I use to perform will push both my Rainsongs sharp if I place them centered between the frets. However when gigging I don't want to play around with a Shub tension screw or for that matter a G7 that won't readily clip to my music stand. I place a Dunlop Trigger capo almost on top of the fret that is to be the new zero. I guess I would rather deal with it in the way while playing than the other hassles.

Ah yes, great idea. I'll try that.

SpruceTop · #14 03-25-2018, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by invguy921

I recently bought a Rainsong SGA-12 fret short scale. I was just playing this guitar as I'm off today. Has anyone else noticed the intonation is off up the neck? I capo'd it at the 5th and it goes noticeably sharp. I wonder if this is adjustable? I gotta say I'm really surprised at this from Rainsong. I do understand as I have had a TON of experience (and owned several hundred acoustic guitars) that this is somewhat common with many guitars up the neck, but this is noticeably off...more than I recall ever experiencing with any other.

Anyone have any thoughts on how to correct this?

Three possibilities:

1) How about your capo pressure? Maybe too much?

2) Capo positioning? It should be applied just behind the fret with the capo edge almost on top of the fret.

3) Or how about using a capo with a gentler radius than what you may be using now? The RainSong's fingerboard has a 20-inch radius which means a capo with a 16-inch radius or other radius smaller than 20-inches will put more pressure on the outer strings when tightened enough to hold the inner string down so they don't buzz. This will result in the intonation of the outer strings--especially the two bass strings--being thrown off more than the inner strings.

To summarize: A capo with a 20-inch radius, applied just behind the fret with just enough pressure to keep all strings from buzzing would be the goal to try to achieve. Also, the guitar's shorter scale length can mean less string tension depending on string-gauge used and that can throw off intonation when capoing or from finger-fretting pressure if you're not careful in capo application or in applying too much fingering pressure (the same fingering pressure that you use on a 25 1/4-inch scale guitar can throw off the intonation of a note on a 24 3/4-inch scale guitar).

Frettingflyer · #15 03-26-2018, 04:44 AM

I may be able to relate to your GAS issue

I have found my G7 performance 2 to be the best Capo I have for the Rainsong neck and that is the only one I use on these guitars, having tried the shub, and keyser and some other brand with adjustable tension(can’t remember the name this early).