middle string buzzing even with high action.

[redir]

Originally Posted by CooloutAC

oh wow I was just asking this question on another thread and then I saw your post. oh I see. it came to me that maybe I should try hammering in the frets. When I checked for uneven frets i only did down the D and G strings 3 at a time. Should I be doing that for all strings? I got a small little rummer mallet would that work? Should I hammer them all lightly in?

That type of mallet is no good. A small finishing nail hammer would be better. But you would only want to hit the frets if you can see that they are too high. If they are seated properly then hammering them will do no good and you have something else going on. In most cases when I do that I also seat them in place with thin Cyanoacrylate glue. Hammering to fix a fret job often results in a game of whack-a-mole too. You may need a proper fret dressing overall.

As mentioned it could be the high frets but with action that high I would not expect that. But it's worth checking. Site down the neck like you are shooting a rifle, do you see a big hump at the neck body joint?

And yes use the fret rocker all over the frets in line of the strings or close enough.

[Fathand]

Originally Posted by CooloutAC

hmm looks like I'll have to buy another gauge for that. I know mine is 16" i believe. an old martin dx1 2004. and i'm not sure what do you mean by fret tang?

You can print radius gauges online, good enough for occasional use.

https://hazeguitars.com/blog/free-ra...heir-many-uses

[CooloutAC]

Originally Posted by redir

That type of mallet is no good. A small finishing nail hammer would be better. But you would only want to hit the frets if you can see that they are too high. If they are seated properly then hammering them will do no good and you have something else going on. In most cases when I do that I also seat them in place with thin Cyanoacrylate glue. Hammering to fix a fret job often results in a game of whack-a-mole too. You may need a proper fret dressing overall.

As mentioned it could be the high frets but with action that high I would not expect that. But it's worth checking. Site down the neck like you are shooting a rifle, do you see a big hump at the neck body joint?

And yes use the fret rocker all over the frets in line of the strings or close enough.

ya I think its a problem with nut or bridge. I thought my initial truss rod adjustment borked something. Now I Just think it was the constant taking off and on the strings that maybe did. cleaning the nut did fix a sintar effect on the high e. I replaced saddle twice and took out shims that were in there. The fact there was shims in there 20 years ago probably means it always had a neck problem. And this a DX1 that was in the best condition out of 8 different stores around NYC I tried. lol but I think i'm just going to replace the whole nut anyways, its probably shot. if that doesn't help i'll examine the bridge area more.

BTW I ordered a Fender PO-220E. I'm scared to death I ordered a guitar online. I wanted a smaller body guitar to play more quietly in my living room and I think I really need to learn to play softer cause I play super hard. People say that Micarta or Richlite don't get wear. Well I can tell you man, my micarta fretboard on the dx1 has grooves in it like its wood on those low frets hahah. and i didn't put ridiculous hours on it, I think just ridiculous pressure with my fingers cause I play like a beast. I mean its really testament to that Martin Quality man if its taken my abuse for 20 years. This guitar is a tank, its still playable though and I will use it for playing outside on occasion or when I want to bang hard.

I realize too i need to be more careful with how I take my guitar out of the case. Flinging it out with only my left hand around the neck under the headstock is probably not good over time lol.

[CooloutAC]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

You are not alone! 3rd and 4th strings tend to be the first to buzz as the action and relief are lowered. Relief is an interesting issue. Because of the fretboard radius, it is slightly different under the 6th string (or 1st string) than when measured under the 3rd or 4th strings. So one person's 0.008 may be someone else's 0.006 depending on which string the measurement was taken - and there seems to be no consensus where exactly it should be taken!

A few of here on AGF shape our saddles with just a little tighter radius than the fretboard (say a 14" radius for a 16" board). This means that the typical string to string drop in action height from bass to treble slows a little in the middle of the fretboard. The 6th and first strings can have your usual action of say 2.5mm to 2mm but the 3rd and 4th strings sit just a fraction higher than they would if you used a 16" radius saddle. Also, measure and set your relief using the middle strings, as they are the problem children.

Just saw your post this is very interesting. I'll have to look into shaping a 14" radius saddle and trying that out ty for posting. And yes you are right, there were many different ways to check relief and also even action when researching. for example musicnomad recommend holding down first string when checking action. I forget what major guitar company said to check relief. hold down first and last frets, then push on the 12th lol. Ands actually you know what, when I use that method. I don't have enough relief.

But ya I've been doing I think the most common way? Of holding down 1st and 12th, and pressing on the 6th fret for checking relief.

[CooloutAC]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

You are not alone! 3rd and 4th strings tend to be the first to buzz as the action and relief are lowered. Relief is an interesting issue. Because of the fretboard radius, it is slightly different under the 6th string (or 1st string) than when measured under the 3rd or 4th strings. So one person's 0.008 may be someone else's 0.006 depending on which string the measurement was taken - and there seems to be no consensus where exactly it should be taken!

A few of here on AGF shape our saddles with just a little tighter radius than the fretboard (say a 14" radius for a 16" board). This means that the typical string to string drop in action height from bass to treble slows a little in the middle of the fretboard. The 6th and first strings can have your usual action of say 2.5mm to 2mm but the 3rd and 4th strings sit just a fraction higher than they would if you used a 16" radius saddle. Also, measure and set your relief using the middle strings, as they are the problem children.

Just saw your post this is very interesting. I'll have to look into shaping a 14" radius saddle and trying that out ty for posting. And yes you are right, there were many different ways to check relief and also even action when researching. for example musicnomad recommend holding down first fret when checking action. I forget what major guitar company said to check relief. hold down first and last frets, then push on the 12th lol.

But ya I've been doing I think the most common way? Of holding down 1st and 12th, and pressing on the 6th fret for checking relief.

[CooloutAC]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

Throwing shade on other well made and respected brands isn't going to make your Martin sound any better.

A couple of suggestions.

Throw a capo on the first fret and see if it gets any better.

Adjust the relief to .010" or .012" and go with that until you isolate the problem. Adding relief when it isn't needed may complicate finding the problem.

Some acoustics started using compound radius necks that far back, so do check that the saddle arch is appropriate for the projected radius if the neck is a compound radius.

Don't overlook the possibility of a loose brace. It's a very common problem on older instruments, and often shows up only on some of the strings, particularly at certain fret positions. Muting the strings and knuckle-rapping the top over the braces is a normal method of checking bracing, but it does require some experience to know what you're listening for.

Do check ALL hardware, particularly the tuning machines, for any vibration that may cause those symptoms. A loose tuner or bushing often sounds like it's coming from somewhere else.

Even though these types of rogue noises seem vexing, usually you can systematically isolate the possible sources to find the real problem.

Bud I just ordered a Fender straight from Fender! Did I lose my mind? Fender, Yamaha and Martin are the top amazon sellers. Number one selling guitar is the Fender CD60S which blew my mind. I had no idea people even buy acoustic fenders.

I recorded myself playing a Jimi Hendrix song on My Martin. https://www.whyp.it/tracks/117952/hey-joe?token=peeTO And it sounds so bad. like an out of tune sitar and buzzing with bar chords on middle of neck. recording quality doesn't help. lol I'm using silk and steel strings cause my fingers are bruised and battered, i'm back to 10/64ths action and man I can't even tune down to open g tuning with those things the E string just dies. so I was listening to myself playing and browsing for a new guitar, and I see fender had a labor day sale, and then all of a sudden Jimi Hendrix whispered in my ear saying "the wind cries Mary" and the guitar just spoke to me. I'm going to call her Mary. a PO-220E looks like a nice living room couch guitar, gets great reviews. I got the Mahogany top hope I don't regret that. The larger spruce dread is the smarter buy but I'm still hoping my Martin can pull through. SHe still roars. wish me luck on my new chinese import.

[redir]

Originally Posted by CooloutAC

ya I think its a problem with nut or bridge. I thought my initial truss rod adjustment borked something. Now I Just think it was the constant taking off and on the strings that maybe did. cleaning the nut did fix a sintar effect on the high e. I replaced saddle twice and took out shims that were in there. The fact there was shims in there 20 years ago probably means it always had a neck problem. And this a DX1 that was in the best condition out of 8 different stores around NYC I tried. lol but I think i'm just going to replace the whole nut anyways, its probably shot. if that doesn't help i'll examine the bridge area more.

BTW I ordered a Fender PO-220E. I'm scared to death I ordered a guitar online. I wanted a smaller body guitar to play more quietly in my living room and I think I really need to learn to play softer cause I play super hard. People say that Micarta or Richlite don't get wear. Well I can tell you man, my micarta fretboard on the dx1 has grooves in it like its wood on those low frets hahah. and i didn't put ridiculous hours on it, I think just ridiculous pressure with my fingers cause I play like a beast. I mean its really testament to that Martin Quality man if its taken my abuse for 20 years. This guitar is a tank, its still playable though and I will use it for playing outside on occasion or when I want to bang hard.

I realize too i need to be more careful with how I take my guitar out of the case. Flinging it out with only my left hand around the neck under the headstock is probably not good over time lol.

When I was doing repairs and working in a local music store, this is bluegrass country BTW, I had a guy come in with a Martin dred needing to have the cowboy chord frets replaced because they wore out. The guitar looked new. So sure I'll replace them. About 3 months later the guy came back in and he was angry! Thought he got ripped off because the frets were worn out again!

I'd hate to shake that guys hand because he'd probably break mine.

[CooloutAC]

Originally Posted by redir

When I was doing repairs and working in a local music store, this is bluegrass country BTW, I had a guy come in with a Martin dred needing to have the cowboy chord frets replaced because they wore out. The guitar looked new. So sure I'll replace them. About 3 months later the guy came back in and he was angry! Thought he got ripped off because the frets were worn out again!

I'd hate to shake that guys hand because he'd probably break mine.

hahaha wow. my cowboy frets are pretty worn on the high strings. But I don't think its causing a problem .

Its funny i just started playing again after over a 4 year hiatus. and i'm now playing with a fretting hand that has arthritis and has shattered a couple times leaving nerve damage in my thumb. I was able to learn how to play so the thumb is not as bad as it was. But When I started playing about 3 weeks ago I think now, I just thought I needed to work my hand up since i'm rusty. But I think a combination of my poor technique and me just playing overly aggressively smashing my hand up and down the fretboard, i injured my hand so bad I thought I needed to go to a doctor. I didn't know when to stop. like 10/64th action with the lifespan 12's and I was just picking as hard as I can barely able to do an F Bar chord, till i eventually had to stop and put it on ice realizing it wasn't getting any better. Even the callouses on my finger tips were just not getting any better lmao. Thats when I started looking into trying to make the guitar easier to play.

Now I got this little mahogany fender coming figure I will learn to play more softly since all i'm doing nowadays is sitting in my living room so why am I screaming over a dread? and making the poorly intonated martin even worse at the same time by playing so hard. haha.

btw lowering the action and using 11's did get the intonation just right on everything except the low e. But I will try out the 12 gauge strings and just use the martin occasionally when i feel like I can handle it. but I expect this fender to be real easy to play which I will be using most of the time now if I luck out. I ordered straight from fender, so the **** thing is coming now from california to NY LMAO. I hope its not in pieces by the time it gets to me. I've never ordered a guitar online and the way I'm doing it I think would make most people vomit hahah.

[CooloutAC]

Just bought a new guitar only to find out my martin actually plays way easier and sounds way better. People say there are way more better budget guitars than there were 20 years ago. But I actually think the truth is all guitars including Martins have simply gone downhill and have gone up in price. I dont think there are any real deals in this world of the shrinking middle class. I'm not even going to try a yamaha. Cheap chinese import is a cheap chinese import. I think the difference is that now even a martin guitar is probably a cheap import. You simply get what you pay for and people nowadays don't know any better. I was lucky to get my $500 dx1 back when I did. I think its time to leave this hobby for the rich folk and let it continue to die. I'm going to laugh when Martin only offers custom shop guitars in America lol...

[RogerHaggstrom]

Probably not the case here, but often when I have a mysterious buzz I can't find the cause of, it's actually the string itself that's buzzing.

[CooloutAC]

Originally Posted by RogerHaggstrom

Probably not the case here, but often when I have a mysterious buzz I can't find the cause of, it's actually the string itself that's buzzing.

changed the strings multiple times even went back to the 12 gauge. still buzzes on the D string on the Martin. next thing will be to replace the nut, its 20 years old and the strings seem to be fully submerged in them. I did help a sintar effect on the high e slightly by trying to clean the slots out. But I think I have to replace the whole thing and If that don't work then I'll examine the bridge again I guess. If its the high frets on the body I guess I could attempt to file them and just not use them, but honestly I think I should just ignore the buzz at this point. Listening to youtube videos everybody's fkn guitar buzzes and sounds like garbage lmao. I live in a wild world man.

As far as this new piece of junk fender goes. It is a high 4th fret that is causing the low e string buzz on the 2nd and 3rd frets. Confirmed with a rocker, and also seems there is a couple other high frets higher up the neck that don't seem to be causing a problem but I guess will if I lower action which is set at 6/64ths out the box. not only are the frets generally high on this piece of garbage fender, they also have extremely sharp and jagged edges lmao. I mean they can draw blood haha. The whole thing is just another chinese joke on America. Smells like chemicals, the body digs deep into my forearm like a knife edges on bidings are so sharp, the frets beat up my fingers. I'm probably breathing in my lungs and rubbing into my skin toxic chemicals. Because its definitely not a nice wood smell like even my martin dx1 still has after 20 years. Yet this guitar is raved about online cause it sounds decent. this is the world we live in now man.

I was complaining about my old Martin, but I'm probably better off with it than buying a new guitar. Now I remember why I stopped playing the past 5 years. I should of bought a fkn taylor academy if I wanted something level and easy to play lol. But the sound of this fender and all the good reviews really suckered me in.

[Fathand]

Originally Posted by CooloutAC

I think its time to leave this hobby for the rich folk and let it continue to die. ..

If you think guitar playing is a rich folks hobby, try golf, sailing, hockey, motorcycling, flying, fishing, hunting and numerous others.

A quality guitar may be several thousand dollars but should last your lifetime with little maintenance other than string changes and maybe a fret job. $5000 over 50 years is $100 a year, that's cheap rent and you might sell jt for a profit after that, especially a well bought used one. They sit quietly at home, not requiring food and provide pleasure when you need them to. Some people are actually even paid to play the things.

[CooloutAC]

Originally Posted by Fathand

If you think guitar playing is a rich folks hobby, try golf, sailing, hockey, motorcycling, flying, fishing, hunting and numerous others.

A quality guitar may be several thousand dollars but should last your lifetime with little maintenance other than string changes and maybe a fret job. $5000 over 50 years is $100 a year, that's cheap rent and you might sell jt for a profit after that, especially a well bought used one. They sit quietly at home, not requiring food and provide pleasure when you need them to. Some people are actually even paid to play the things.

how many accounts you got? lol plenty of places to fish without a permit, which isn't all that expensive, with a cheap pole. But yes you are correct about those other hobbies for sure. They are for rich people lol. I don't see your point though. My 20 year old DX1 is a lifetime guitar I bought for $500. A similar priced guitar in todays time won't last me 5 years. I started this thread complaining about my old guitar but now I realize it still plays better after 20 years than most similar priced guitars out the box in todays market. and they don't have nearly the same build quality. Just doesn't seem sustainable bud. Less and less people are going to be buying those pricey guitars for thousands you are talking about when they already feel disillusioned with their entry level guitars they were lied to about on social media. I was lucky I got my cheap martin when I did, because now it comes with an HPL top and I'm willing to bet its not even built the same lmao...

[CooloutAC]

welp so I'm just back to using 11 gauge strings and 8/64ths action screw it. Still plays decent and no new guitar is going to be as good as my sweet Martin DX1. Its Legend. Maybe one day when it gets real bad I find a good Luthier to try and level it.