Is This Really a Taylor?

510picker · #1 03-18-2002, 11:14 AM

Is this a legit Taylor? If so, it is the first time I have ever heard of one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...item=852522797

JayGon · #2 03-18-2002, 12:10 PM

The guitar looks questionable, as does the seller after checking the feedbacks. May be legit, bit the lable script looks different as does the gold "Taylor" on the headstock.

Jay

NdaBoonies · #3 03-18-2002, 12:39 PM

Hmmmmmmmmm, Jaygon... can't agree, concerning the label script! That's - for sure - what the earlier "Lemon Grove" labels look like! The earlier Taylors also used gold decals (or silk screening?) for the logo, as well as the "non-smiley" bridge. The serial number of 2294 indicates a 1983 model, which is consistent with the guitar's appearance.

My 1984 712 has the "Lemon Grove" label and the gold logo... and the position markers on the side of the fretboard appear to be brass pins rather than MOP or abalone microdots! Throw in some herringbone (!!) trim separating the panels of the three-piece back, and it looks NOTHING like the more recent 700s!

The use of cherry on that 6xx on eBay seems kind of strange, but the 600-series was mahogany in standard format at that time, so who knows... maybe Bob T!??

In any event, the guitar appears to be for real... as nearly as I can tell from pictures, at least!!

TheTaylor310 · #4 03-18-2002, 12:41 PM

Hello~

Well... me being the Taylor fanatic i am, ive looked at many old Taylors too

I do believe it is a legit Taylor. The guitar label is before the ones they used in the early 90s. And the "Taylor" on the headstock? Its common with all the early Taylors

wjcurtis · #5 03-18-2002, 12:44 PM

Don't think I'd buy anything from this seller just based on the high percentage of negative feedbacks (and the failry disrespectful way they respond to them). As for the guitar, I'd have to wonder about it. The label does not look quite right, and gold colored lettering on the headstock? Might be interesting to check with Taylor to see if this model was ever manufactured.

510picker · #6 03-18-2002, 01:07 PM

I have no intention of buying it........I just know that there are lots of Taylor freaks out there like myself who like to see unusual stuff like this.

So is this thing made of of cherry wood?

cPaul · #7 03-18-2002, 01:36 PM

It does not "look right" to me, but I will reserve judgement until someone can authenticate it better.

cpmusic · #8 03-18-2002, 01:51 PM

If this is a copy, it's a very good one. The gold headstock logo looks like the one on my 1983 615, and most of the details look right, including the white binding, simple rosette rings, bound rosewood fretboard, and plain rosewood bridge. The label looks about right, but I don't have my guitar with me for comparison.

On the other hand, the tuners look like cheap imports, well below Taylor standards except for the Babys. I also wonder about the cherry because I thought that Taylor had made the 600 series strictly maple by 1983. On the other hand, they have been known to use different woods in any given series over the years.

I'll drop Taylor an email and see what they have to say about it.

JayGon · #9 03-18-2002, 03:31 PM

OK, thanks for setting me straight, Ndaboonies, et al,. When I read the nature of the negative feedbacks, I probably let it prejudice me (my bad eBay experiences flashed back -- thankfully none were with my Taylors). Now I recall Lemon Grove models bore that script.

I am curious about the tonewoods, though. I'd be curious to see how cpmusic makes out w/Taylor.

Jay

NdaBoonies · #10 03-18-2002, 05:03 PM

I have to agree with cpmusic on most of the details... question on the fretboard and bridge though... rosewood, or ebony!?? My '84 712 has ebony in both places...

I knew Taylor started out in 1978 making the 600-series with mahogany, as stated on the Taylor site's "Dating Your Guitar" page, but I've really seen nothing that says when they went to maple... I also knew that there was an '83 maple 615 out there, just too lazy to try to remember who has it... ahah!!... cpmusic!!

I'm interested in what cpmusic finds out on the 'cherry' issue, too!!

As for the cheap import tuners... look like miniGrover-like wannabes??? A little off-topic, maybe, but... my '84 712 has some gold Schaller-like wannabes on it... weird, with a hex wrench tightening adjustment on the inside end of the shaft, rather than the button end... the buttons are SOLID, with NO screw/bolt hole to fix them to the shaft! And they appear to have been on the guitar from "Day 1"... else they're a PERFECT match to the full size Schaller tuner profile!?? Anyone ever seen such tuners??

cpmusic · #11 03-18-2002, 05:29 PM

NdaBoonies, my 615 has a rosewood fretboard and bridge. Back then they only used ebony in 700s and 800s, if memory serves. (I don't think the 900 series existed yet, but I'm not sure.) As for the beginning point of the maple 600s, I used to have an old copy of Frets Magazine from around '81 or '82 that had a review of a maple 615 in it, so I assumed that all 600s were maple by then.

My 615's fretboard is also bound in white like the 650 on ebay, and has the same unbound headstock with the rosewood veneer. J.R. was nice enough to post my pictures in the gallery, if you're interested. The pictures aren't all that great, but the details are visible. And of course, the guitar's natural beauty shines thru!

BTW, Nda, you mentioned the herringbone strips in the back of your 712. My Taylor also has a really neat strip in the back, which looks to be hand-cut from wood and MOP. Here's a picture:

Okay, so I'm showing off. Sue me.

Also, my 615 has nickel plated tuners that look just like Schallers, including a clean professional finish and phillips head screws thru the buttons, but without the name on the back of the housing. They're smooth and sure like Schallers, but I have no way of knowing who made them. Maybe someday I'll pull one off to see if there's a name on the underside. Anyway, it could be that Taylor used tuners from various sources back then.

Hmmmm....maybe I should have posted this under "my guitar's better than yours"!

NdaBoonies · #12 03-18-2002, 07:39 PM

Hey! Thanks for the info, cp! I'm not against learning a few things, even if I am getting to be an old dog! That's a N-I-C-E looking strip on the back of your 615... makes herringbone look kinda tame! And that maple really do look 'licious!!

I have to say "Ditto" on the tuners... my 712's are smooth and sure and nameless... my only gripe is that I wouldn't be able to install ebony buttons even if I wanted to. But hey... they do the job and do it well, so I can live with it!

These postings should probably go under "My Guitar's Different From Yours... And Here's How!".

Do you think you'll get a definitive answer on the cherry tonewood from Taylor? I get the impression that their records are "sketchy" for stuff that happened early on... no time for accommodating a "sense of history" when you're trying to keep a business afloat, I guess!

Mike A. · #13 03-19-2002, 03:51 AM

I would assume that the designation of "cherry" refers to the stain on the mahogany. Remember the 20th and 25th anniversary models? That is, the XX-GA, XX-DR, XXV-GA, XXV-DR? All were quitled Sapele with a dark cherry stain.........which looks very similar to that 650.

From what I've seen of the guitar, backed up by what those of you who own mid 80's models have shared, everything checks out. I only question the case originality. I've seen some really old Taylor cases and they were still a dark brown tolex style case with "Taylor" emblazened in gold on the top on the bass bout section.

I could be wrong...........let's see what Taylor says.

-Mike A.

JW · #14 03-19-2002, 06:09 AM

The case looks like an upscale TKL from the shape, build and combonation lock. Looks just like the case my J200 is in but a differat color and size. Nice case as for the guitar I think its for real but I do question the tuners. But if its a fake some took a lot of time. From what everybdy here has said(cause I dont know old Taylors) I would say its real. As many Taylor Wize people on this board Im sure if it was a fake someone would have spotted it. I would feel a lot better bidding on it now than when it came up for auction. JW

cpmusic · #15 03-19-2002, 10:05 AM

I'm guessing that that case isn't original. My case probably didn't come with the guitar originally, but it was standard issue for Taylors of that time and its outer covering is dark brown. It's not a custom fit like the ones Taylor started making on their own (I wish it was) but everywhere I go people recognize it as a Taylor case. That case looks nice, though, and since the guitar is a dread, it's probably a decent fit.

As for the body wood, Mike may be right about that simply being cherry stain. On closer inspection of the grain, however, it looks like the wood might be maple rather than mahogany -- it's not as even and straight as I'd expect mahogany to be, and I think I can see some curl in the upper bout. It doesn't look very fancy, but that could be why they stained it.