Recording The Audio - Is This A Different Twist?

[W5BLT]

I recently discovered something very interesting. I'm sure that I'm not reinventing the wheel, but, none the less, it was interesting to me and I thought that I'd relay the information to see if anyone has tried this twist.

I recently installed the iBeam and I'm really happy with it. I am, however, going to get an external processor of some kind to eliminate some of the "bass". I don't know if it works the same way on other guitars, but, on my 355 with such a big body even without any amplification, the bass strings are very pronounced and loud. The iBeam just seems to enhance it. So much so, that when recording, I need to knock down the volume to keep the bass at a reasonable level. Hence, the mid and high strings aren't getting the "punch" that I'd like to have. I'm hoping that I can find some kind of processor to fix this problem. Any suggestions?

Anyway, I was messing around last night trying this and that. First, I was recording directly from the iBeam to my BR-8. Then, I laid down a track next to the first one using a C1000S mic. It was interesting. Although I was playing the same song, same tempo......it was a totally different sound. I decided to take it one step further. I set my BR-8 up to record via the iBeam on one track and also via a C1000S at the "same time". Now, this was really interesting. It put a whole new "depth" to the music. This being a successful experiment I tried it a couple of more times. Each time moving the mic to a different position. Many different sounds can be created. Maybe someday, I'll catalog the mic placements and somehow title the "types of sounds" for future use.

I was wondering if anyone has ever tried this before and what kind of results you've gotten. Come to think of it, if this works this way on a guitar, what might happen if 2 mic's were used with different placements and/or different effects on a vocal recording? Hmmmm....food for thought....

[ScottyMac]

There are others here that can speculate with a lot more confidence than I can, but I think experimenting with two mics is a great idea. There are many different sounds coming off the front of that guitar. Also, if you use two mics, I'd suggest putting them on different tracks to A)eliminate the possibility of phase cancellation, and B)to give you some flexibility in adjusting the tone that pleases you when you mix down.

[Bob Womack]

This is one of those neat little techniques which can really add sparkle to your sound. What is happening is that the sound arrives at the pickup and the mic at two different times. There are EQ differences between the tracks as well. If you pan these outboard, the EQ and time differences "steer" your ears based upon where you are on the neck. You can monkey around with placement and panning to come up with a happy medium which gives you either centralization or some nice left-right effects or a balance between the two.

Now, with vocals, we usually want the voice centered, unless we are working with background vocals. Using two mics can cause phase problems. Some engineers still do it, but they have to pay lost of attention to phase cancellation or they will have a rotten sound. Managing this sort of thing takes lots of recording tracks as well.

By the way, going back to guitar, some people I know use the pickup to get bass and then use two mics for the main stereo image.

Bob

[Rick Crider]

Bob....
.....there's an endless variety of ways to play around with the sound. It seems like everytime we sit down to tinker with the electronic stuff we discover something different.....

One of our more recent ventures is to run a stereo cord out of the Fishman onboard blender (with the internal switch set to 'stereo')....which gives us two completely separate signals (one from the internal mic and one from the saddle pickup) running down two separate wires and into two separate input channels on the mixer.

This way, at the mixer, I can pan either one left, right or center, to personal taste, and also dabble with the eq and effects separately on each channel, and, thus, each 'source', the internal mic and/or the saddle pickup.

Then, on top of all the above, we're using a large diaphram condenser mic that's already hot as fire. This mic picks up even loud breathing in the room.....and cars on the street outside, hence the late night sessions. (If some idiot blows their car horn in the middle of a song, I'm ready to open fire.)

If we turn the volume all the way down on the Fishman blender so that there's *no* signal coming from the guitar, we're still getting a really nice guitar sound through the mic even though the mic is well up above the guitar for vocal use......probably a good 18" up above the sound hole of the guitar.

Making sense so far?

Now.....what I'm getting at is that, in effect, we're getting three different 'sources' of audio from the guitar on the recordings. One from the Fishman internal mic, one from the Fishman saddle pickup, and one 'room ambience' type source from what the vocal mic is picking up. All our recording is done 'live'....meaning that everthing is done at one 'take'.....not coming back and dubbing the vocals over an already recorded guitar, etc....

Hard to describe in 25 words or less but it allows one to really tinker with the sound. The song of Jeff's on the Forum CD sampler was done with that method if you want to hear the results of that late night dabbling session.

Now....on that particular song, Jeff's guitar is the one running stereo into the mixer. Mine, the lead in the background, is running mono (mono cord, with internal switch set to mono) out of the Fishman blender and into just one channel on the mixer, plus, the vocal condenser mic is picking up a bit of it also since I'm only about 5 feet away from him and his setup.

Lastly, having said all this, I was recently informed by J. R. that our CD entry was recorded in 'mono', which wasn't intentional, which basically make me, the technician, feel like an idiot anyway.

Later....
Rick

[Aruthas]

Hey Rick, nice work on that song, both musically and technically. Who sings on it? I really like the general mood of the song, and the singing contributes a lot to it.

[Bob Womack]

Rick,

One thing which always amazes me is how many different ways there are to skin the cat, so to speak. I listen to acoustic guitar recordings and hear new sounds all the time and I really love hearing the different takes on the sound. Pat Kirtley often uses both stereo mics and a soundhold pickup to record his guitar. I would never have thought to combine a soundhole humbucker with mics!

Bob

[W5BLT]

Why is it that it doesn't matter how much you know about something, you never know enough? Life is one long school. Education never ends. That which I turned a blind eye on back in high school is now my everlasting quest. I just can't seen to get enough....thanks guys..

[Rick Crider]

Aruthas.....
.....Jeff is the vocalist on that song...'There One Goes'.....(actually the whole song is his...lyrics, music, etc,...I was just tinkering around in the background on the recording....)

He'll be pleased to hear that some of you folks really like that one.....I'll have him read some of the posts when he's over later......he's a forum member, just not online himself.....he uses my computer.

Later....
Rick

[W5BLT]

Jeff - It's time to take some of them millions you're making playing your music and buy a computer...or....are you just trying to avoid us? We know where you live.....we do have the option of sending over the computer police to discuss the matter with you....!