Played Taylor V-class at Gryphon today for 1.5 hours, my thoughts!

[ii Cybershot ii]

Today I had a wonderful afternoon at Gryphon Stringed Instruments. It was really a great time with the Taylor reps, Gryphon staff, and customers just hanging out. There were about 5-10 of us at any given time wandering around, or in the testing room playing all these guitars and chatting.

I was fortunate enough to play 4 of the V-class models today: a builders edition K14ce, two different 914ces, and the K24ce.

I compared them side-by-side with many of the most recent models: 814ce, 816ce-DLX, 714ce-LTD Koa b/s, 322ce 12-fret, and a 410e-r. (I also played a bunch of Martin guitars including a few vintage ones).

I also asked a TON of questions. I came into this highly skeptical, so hopefully I can provide some worth-while information below, and I feel pretty clear on my impression of the guitars.

The pros:
-The new guitars were incredibly balanced across all strings. Near perfection.
-The bass was tight but loud, not boomy at all which could be the case with the previous generation of various Performance bracing patterns. I was reminded of how the bass notes are on a standard series Martin. Loud, tight, amazing.
-The higher notes on the upper frets rang more clearly than 95% of guitars you might come across. There was no splattiness at all, which is so common on the upper frets of an acoustic. It rang totally pure, like a harp or piano. Really impressed by this and it was definitely "different".
-The string separation was excellent, no muddiness at all. Even the rosewood guitars could be strummed hard and would not become muddy, boomy, or distort (again, differing from the current bracing patterns).
-The sustain was definitely better than the previous generation. I'd estimate around 30% better. You could instantly feel the vibrations and sustain in your fretting hand. Fretting notes higher up the fretboard on all strings showed excellent sustain, again you could feel it in your fingers easily.
-The clarity was great. Every note was there all the time. Nothing was being stepped on by other notes even when you strum hard.
-EDIT: I noticed improved dead note spots.

The "cons" (if you can call them that):
-The volume was not as loud as the previous generation with the Advanced Performance Bracing, and about as loud as the Performance bracing guitars that I played but maybe just a hair quieter. The 2017 814ce and 816ce-DLX were beasts. They have such a loud and responsive attack. And the bass in those guitars just kicks butt. If you have played these you know what I'm talking about. Switching back and forth between those you really felt the bass response difference.
-The K24 was a somewhat quiet guitar, but even still, all of the V-class guitars still had a ton of sustain and resonance which was impressive.
-The "intonation" was a somewhat debatable topic for me. Personally I felt that it seemed improved because of how clearly the upper notes rang, but is was not much of a selling point for me. Perhaps a quiet bedroom and some time alone would shed more light on this.
-The new guitars were slightly heavier than the older ones but also felt more solidly built.

All-in-all it is my impression that these are the best guitars Taylor has made. This is going to sound funny, but I truly feel like these are the most "Martin" sounding Taylors yet. They have that balanced tightness to all the notes, while still retaining volume, and avoiding muddiness during hard strumming. I also kept feeling like the guitar was a new "vintage" guitar. It had that resonance, sustain, and a bell-like quality to the upper notes just like a vintage guitar has. To me, all of the various Performance braced guitars are sort-of gimmicky in a sense (and I own one lol), they are extremely lightly built, loud, responsive as hell, but just kind of "too much" at times, as if Taylor really wanted to push the extremes of these qualities. But don't get me wrong, I still love my 714ce. I think these new guitars are going to age VERY well. They feel sturdier than the previous generation and are more tame to begin with. As they open up I can only imagine how amazing the volume and sustain will become. This is probably what excited me most today and had my imagination swirling in dreams of a 300 or 32x series.

Things I learned from the Taylor reps:
-They expect all 300 series and higher GA guitars to have the V-class bracing by the end of 2018!
-They are rolling out the V-class bracing by body type, with the GA (x14) first (this is due to the costs associated with the machine parts).
-They expect it to take about 3 years to get it into all the body types, and even eventually into the 100, 200, and GS Mini series.
-They expect the 32x series (blackwood/mahogany) to get it early next year (really looking forward to this).
-They spent over 5 years testing the stability of this bracing pattern.
-I mentioned that Taylor has always had a bracing pattern reserved for the higher end models and custom orders, for example the "CV" bracing and the "Advanced Performance" and I asked if there was going to be a version of this coming out for V-class. They said not that they knew of right now, but that the company is continually coming up with new ideas so they wouldn't be surprised if there were nuances down the line.
-I asked about limited editions and they said going forward they will continue, and the limited editions will come out randomly when they find a unique combination they like and not by season.

My final conclusions:
-These guitars made a very positive impression on me despite being highly skeptical beforehand. They are fun as heck to play and definitely different.
-The sustain is probably the most noticeable difference, followed by how clearly the upper notes ring.
-I think this bracing pattern will really shine in dreadnought shaped guitars.
-Guitars with this V-class should age well.
-It did not qualify as a "revolutionary" thing for me, just a really great guitar.
-I could see the current Performance or Advanced performance bracing patterns still often being preferred in the smaller bodied guitars (GC size) because the bracing is so light, responsive, and has lots of bass.
-Some of the other customers preferred the current 800 series guitars because of the volume and bass response. I would take these new V-class ones for sure.
-I really want one of these guitars!!
-EDIT: It's two days after I wrote this review, and I wanted to add: your X-braced guitars are safe. While I found these new V-class guitars to be have lots of positive qualities and be quite excellent, they don't make other guitars obsolete. It's a slightly new sound and style for Taylor and just for that reason it probably won't be for everyone (because nothing is)!

EDIT: I also wanted to add that the Taylor reps were very cool (and so was the staff at Gryphon as always). They were truly not trying to sell anything and more than anything were interested in what I thought about the guitars (likes, dislikes, etc).

[WindChaser]

That is awesome. I’m looking forward to trying these. Thanks for sharing!

[ahorsewithnonam]

That was a very well written post and I really enjoyed the questions that you ask them

[Mr Fingers]

I would think that sales of Taylors which have not yet rec'd the new magic bracing would grind to a halt. Why would someone want a design that the manufacturer itself considers sub-optimal?

[ii Cybershot ii]

Originally Posted by WindChaser

That is awesome. I’m looking forward to trying these. Thanks for sharing!

Originally Posted by ahorsewithnonam

That was a very well written post and I really enjoyed the questions that you ask them

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Mr Fingers

I would think that sales of Taylors which have not yet rec'd the new magic bracing would grind to a halt. Why would someone want a design that the manufacturer itself considers sub-optimal?

To me, the differences were such that I can totally see someone preferring the current bracing models, and two of the customers I played and chatted with today liked the 800 series models we played over the 914 V-class. But you're right, sales could definitely start to slow, which is probably why they are moving the bracing into the entire GA series so quickly. It took 2 years for the 300 series to get it after the last revoicing.

[rct]

Nice job.

Thanks for that!

rct

[tippy5]

Excited to hear that the highs are strong.
You might be right.
This could favor a rare new dreadnought with strong high E response.
Couple that with the fast Taylor cutaway neck feel.

Thanks for the detailed report.

[Glennwillow]

Very informative and helpful post, Cybershot! Well done!

- Glenn

[Brucebubs]

'Perhaps a quiet bedroom and some time alone'

Maybe keep that follow-up between the 2 of you.

Good post, well written.

[pjroberts]

Originally Posted by Mr Fingers

I would think that sales of Taylors which have not yet rec'd the new magic bracing would grind to a halt. Why would someone want a design that the manufacturer itself considers sub-optimal?

Most buyers are not tracking AGF debates, NAMM announcements or really care about bracing. They will play, and if they like what it does, and especially if they like the way it looks, they’re not even going to think about or ask guitar nerd questions like what brace technology does this guitar use.

[GTomcan]

That was a very good review cybershot , Thanks!

As a long time Taylor fan , I am happy to see what is a improvement to there acoustics. I'm old now and have slowed down my compulsive trading and am just content with the sound of my older Taylors I think I have the first 3 generations of bracing up to Adirondack CV, GA . they work fine for me.
Who knows the original X may someday be a "Golden Era" per say,( I think that Martin may have that Trade Marked) limited option, for classic reissue (sales marketing gimmick).

I like to hear about manufacturers innovating. It's the heartbeat that drives industry and I'm happy to see it in the acoustic guitar realm. It makes me feel there's still a lot of life in acoustic guitars. Heck, I think I see them featured more now than I ever have. Even if innovations fail, to have innovated is to have succeeded, because failures and successes both teach us something.

Plus, I've always admired Bob Taylor in how he approaches his business. No wonder he's the second largest producer now. There's another certain guitar maker who could learn a lot from him.

[srick]

Thank you Cybershot! Sounds really interesting. I wonder how they will sound when they open up? I wonder how they would sound with terrified tops?

[MChild62]

Cybershot, I literally joined the AGF a few days ago because I could not find any meaningful views anywhere else of Taylor's new V-Class guitars. Your review was exactly what I hoped to find: competent, balanced, healthy skepticism, and open-minded to new concepts, and ability to compare/contrast with existing Taylors.
Thanks so much for the time you put into sharing your views. Awesome!

[sakar12]

Originally Posted by srick

Thank you Cybershot! Sounds really interesting. I wonder how they will sound when they open up? I wonder how they would sound with terrified tops?

I love this typo.

I imagine my playing sometimes terrifies my guitars and let me tell you, they don't sound as good when it does.