Red-Eye preamp disappointment

DesertTwang · #1 09-20-2016, 01:37 PM

Based on the countless glowing reviews, I recently bought a Fire-Eye Red-Eye preamp for my Martin dreadnaught, which is equipped with a K&K Pure Mini. I played the guitar through the Red-Eye and a PA this past weekend at a wedding, and the sound was, quite frankly, horrid. Piezo-like and quacky. Exactly the kind of sound I didn't want when I decided to go with the K&K and the Red-Eye. Played directly into my Fender Acoustasonic on the other hand, the guitar sounds fantastic, and way, way, way better than through the Red-Eye/PA combo.

Granted, we used a rental PA system (consisting of a mixer and a couple of active speakers), and we didn't have a sound person, but based on what I read about the Red-Eye, I expected to have "magical" sound (or something close to it) simply by having the Red-Eye in the mix. I'm at a loss, because I wonder if I'm doing something wrong?

The only potential explanation I could imagine is that I used the effects loop output on the Red-Eye to go into the mixer instead of the XLR output, because we were short on XLR cables and I had to share a channel with the acoustic bass. Would that really make a difference, though?

Ed-in-Ohio · #2 09-20-2016, 01:50 PM

You should send this post, as an email, to Daren at Fire-Eye Development. His email address address is: daren [at] fire-eye dot com

For what it's worth, my Fire Eye Red-Eye sound scary good with all passive acoustic pickups (including the K&K) whether going into my Carvin amp or a PA.

El Conquistador · #3 09-20-2016, 02:03 PM

Yes, an email or a phone call to Darren is in order. BTW, he does answer the phone himself.

Steve

BTW, please share what you find out.

alnico5 · #4 09-20-2016, 02:03 PM

So you plugged into the instrument "in" on the Red-Eye and then went out the effects loop "out" to the PA? I have not used that set-up but my K&K'ed Talyor to the house PA via the XLR leaves nothing to be desired. Could the PA's controls have been responsible: way too much treble, etc? I need very little EQ for a great sound. Also, could the Red-Eye's treble control have been jacked way up?

Wyllys · #5 09-20-2016, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DesertTwang

The only potential explanation I could imagine is that I used the effects loop output on the Red-Eye to go into the mixer instead of the XLR output, because we were short on XLR cables and I had to share a channel with the acoustic bass. Would that really make a difference, though?

Yes.

The main problem is going into a playing situation without previously verifying that everything works as it should and apparently without a plan B.

You'll get it right next time.

DesertTwang · #6 09-20-2016, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wyllys

Yes.

The main problem is going into a playing situation without previously verifying that everything works as it should and apparently without a plan B.

You'll get it right next time.

Thank you for weighing in. And you are right, we didn't have time to do a proper sound check other than, "hey, can you guys hear [insert instrument here]?" I didn't adjust my own sound, either, since I'm still new to all this stuff and don't yet understand how a mixer works and what needs to plug in where. But one of my bandmates took care of that part, and he's fairly experienced working with PA's.

I just looked at the manual of the Red-Eye, and according to the layout diagrams, one can go from the effects loop output into the PA. Are you sure going through the XLR output would make a difference in sound?

lschwart · #7 09-20-2016, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DesertTwang

Thank you for weighing in. And you are right, we didn't have time to do a proper sound check other than, "hey, can you guys hear [insert instrument here]?" I didn't adjust my own sound, either, since I'm still new to all this stuff and don't yet understand how a mixer works and what needs to plug in where. But one of my bandmates took care of that part, and he's fairly experienced working with PA's.

I just looked at the manual of the Red-Eye, and according to the layout diagrams, one can go from the effects loop output into the PA. Are you sure going through the XLR output would make a difference in sound?

When you say you "shared a channel" with the acoustic bass, do you mean you plugged one into the XLR and the other into the 1/4" input on the same channel and the mixer you were using summed both inputs (some mixers allow that, some don't)? Or were you using a stereo channel? There are several reasons why neither would be optimal no matter which output of the Red Eye you used.

Louis

DesertTwang · #8 09-20-2016, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnico5

So you plugged into the instrument "in" on the Red-Eye and then went out the effects loop "out" to the PA? I have not used that set-up but my K&K'ed Talyor to the house PA via the XLR leaves nothing to be desired. Could the PA's controls have been responsible: way too much treble, etc? I need very little EQ for a great sound. Also, could the Red-Eye's treble control have been jacked way up?

yep, that's the setup I used. According to the Red-Eye's user manual, it should not be a problem to go out via 1/4 inch cable to the mixer instead of the XLR cable. But what do I know. My bandmate adjusted the mixer's controls, since I'm still new to this stuff and wouldn't know what to do, at least not in the time constraints we faced during the wedding gig.

I find it very hard to imagine, though, that a few adjustments on the mixer's EQ could mean the difference between a plasticky, piezo-sound and a nice, natural guitar sound... Or could they?

stevecuss · #9 09-20-2016, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DesertTwang

yep, that's the setup I used. According to the Red-Eye's user manual, it should not be a problem to go out via 1/4 inch cable to the mixer instead of the XLR cable. But what do I know. My bandmate adjusted the mixer's controls, since I'm still new to this stuff and wouldn't know what to do, at least not in the time constraints we faced during the wedding gig.

I find it very hard to imagine, though, that a few adjustments on the mixer's EQ could mean the difference between a plasticky, piezo-sound and a nice, natural guitar sound... Or could they?

To your last statement - I think you'd be blown away at what a couple of simple tweaks can do to revolutionize sound. Quick case in point:

-- We plugged my Mcilroy acoustic into our church sound system yesterday to tis my new Trance Amulet pickup. Most of the eq spectrum sounded fantastic but the highs/presence was overwhelmingly too strong. I dialed back the trance tone control and it barely helped. Weird. Then the penny dropped - we're plugging into an Avalon U5 that we usually use for our K&K equipped guitars. Trance is active, K&K is passive. Avalon adds, apparently, a significant dose of highs when the tone setting is engaged. We switched out for a Radial direct box. Incredible, even tone. EQ flat at the sound board. Problem solved.

Gear doesn't always play nice with each other. I've not used the Red Eye, but it is supposed to be famous as a great "K&K whisperer"

so....

a few quick troubleshooting questions:

-- ok, so the red eye manual says going out the 1/4" can be done, but depending on cable length, it still wouldn't be optimal vs an XLR cable. And yes, it can potentially make a significant difference in tone. Next time, I'd recommend trying an XLR and seeing if you still have a problem.

-- next steps, as already mentioned: is Red Eye treble dial set correctly? Is EQ set flat on Mixer? Red eye treble dial alone could have caused all your woes. If wasn't that you had terrible overall tone, you may have good solid tone that is hidden underneath tinny, boosted highs.

-- next: how are your gain stages. Red Eye can add gain, as can the board. If the gain is out of whack, what is really just "a tad too many highs" can become brittle, piezo like tone.

hope that helps! Both Red Eye and K&K have a respected, loyal following for a reason - they're both really solid pieces of gear. Still, sometimes a piece of gear doesn't play nice and you need another combination of options. Frustrating, but hey, that's what keeps us reading the AGF boards!

lschwart · #10 09-20-2016, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DesertTwang

yep, that's the setup I used. According to the Red-Eye's user manual, it should not be a problem to go out via 1/4 inch cable to the mixer instead of the XLR cable. But what do I know. My bandmate adjusted the mixer's controls, since I'm still new to this stuff and wouldn't know what to do, at least not in the time constraints we faced during the wedding gig.

I find it very hard to imagine, though, that a few adjustments on the mixer's EQ could mean the difference between a plasticky, piezo-sound and a nice, natural guitar sound... Or could they?

Well, that depends. In this scenario, you weren't using the mixer channel the way it's supposed to be used and you can't blame the Red Eye for that. How bad or OK the doubling up on the channel might sound depends on how the mixer is designed. One thing is for sure: your friend would not have been able to adjust the EQ for both of those signals in any adequate way if they needed it (and it sounds like they--or at least the guitar did). And there may have been other problems at work.

Louis

Wyllys · #11 09-20-2016, 04:33 PM

OK, you can't go plugging up a single channel with both mic and line inputs.

Bad!

alnico5 · #12 09-20-2016, 04:33 PM

DesertTwang, you are correct in that you can go out of the effects loop to the mixer. I have not done that, but I have gone into the effects loop along with my reverb, and gone out the XLR. I've found that bass is cut this way, and of course the Red-Eye is passive since it wasn't turned on by plugging into the input. (You don't get treble or volume boost this way.)

If the bass player set the channel for his own preferences and then you plugged in, you were at his mercy!

xtremekustomz · #13 09-20-2016, 04:37 PM

I had to eq the crap out of my taylor 324 and 616ce with a K&K and redeye. It didn't really help me out either

alnico5 · #14 09-20-2016, 04:40 PM

I hope the person in charge of the mixer didn't pre-screw up everything with the "smily EQ": +++bass, no mids, and +++ treble.

Vancebo · #15 09-20-2016, 05:08 PM

I am so sorry to hear that. Especially since I have been one of those that gave the Red Eye a glowing report. The Red Eye is not a fix everything and give you the perfect balanced tone. It will IMO make what you got sound better in a fidelity sort of way. If your plugged-in-guitar-tone is not quite balanced, you may still need more EQ functionality than the Red Eye can give you. My Dazzo Equipped guitars all are pretty balanced to start. Generally, I have to boost the treble when I am playing in worship band at church for it to cut through better. Sometimes I need a bit of a mid cut. I do that on the amp or the mixer. Another thing that you might consider is your amp my already be designed to "color" or "alter" the signal to make most typical pickups sound good so they may not truly be a flat response sort of thing like a PA.

Remember, experiment and get to know your gear and it's tendencies before you gig. Good luck.