I think I'm going to give up on my lyric

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Mischief

Well I've pulled the pin and ordered a D-tar multi source.
I plan to either install it and then modify it if I need more natural tone in the future or modify straight away. If so I'll do as Dave did and swap the UST for soundboard transducers.

While I wait for the unit to arrive I'll fool around one last time with the lyric. Likely it will just end up in a different guitar as I think they are a great pickup just not for this.
Thanks everyone for their advise so far. I'm still keen to here others opinions despite now making a choice already.
Cheers

Best of luck. The stock DTAR will sound really good with the mic. Especially with all the available body res pedals and EQ options to dress it up. It occurred to me that you could use both pickups (K&K and UST) by moving the UST to the 3rd source (ring in stereo) and the K&K to the primary pickup spot. You'd need a stereo splitter cable and two channels. Could be fun.


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[Mischief]

What about using a small blend pot connecting the UST and the K&K prior to the preamp? Then I could just roll off one or blend to taste? Would that work?

[martingitdave]

I think I misspoke about onboard blending a third source. http://www.seymourduncan.com/wp-cont...structions.pdf. The pickup is designed for 2 sources (1 mic and 1 pickup). You can split between mono (both to tip) or stereo (pickup to tip).

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[Mischief]

I would just like to point out I am a complete idiot. After all these years I thought I learned to never make assumptions.

Well let me first say. The sound home on my guitar is small. I can only just fit my fat hand in there. By the time I am in position to places pick up there's no way to see with a mirror. Unless looking through a string hole which I may try this time.

At any rate by feel everything seemed good. A singer ready to do my K&K mini install I used my inspection scope to have a look at the room on my sound board.

Guess what?.........

I mounted the lyric half on the board and half on the guitar top. Grrrrrr feels fine when I feel it but it's a little crooked off center and half off the board.

Well I'm committed to change my system. But I'll likely reinstall it in something else.

Man if I would have checked this when I was first having problems I may have spent this money on another guitar instead. Lol.

Live and learn

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Mischief

I would just like to point out I am a complete idiot. After all these years I thought I learned to never make assumptions.

Well let me first say. The sound home on my guitar is small. I can only just fit my fat hand in there. By the time I am in position to places pick up there's no way to see with a mirror. Unless looking through a string hole which I may try this time.

At any rate by feel everything seemed good. A singer ready to do my K&K mini install I used my inspection scope to have a look at the room on my sound board.

Guess what?.........

I mounted the lyric half on the board and half on the guitar top. Grrrrrr feels fine when I feel it but it's a little crooked off center and half off the board.

Well I'm committed to change my system. But I'll likely reinstall it in something else.

Man if I would have checked this when I was first having problems I may have spent this money on another guitar instead. Lol.

Live and learn

My goodness. That's a strange one. That said, I don't think you'd get drasticly different results. I have my fingers crossed for your next install. Do you have any handy friends with less meaty mitts? :-)

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[midwinter]

I agree. I don't really think you'd have gotten radically different results from that placement.

[Mischief]

Well that makes me feel a bit better.
I think anyone stuffing their hand in this little parlor will fill the hole enough making it impossible to see with a mirror using the sound hole.
That's why I actually decided to use my inspection bore scope.

With the K&K they have instructed me to install on the far side of the pins (even deeper into the guitar) and if it won't fit on the soundboard I am to install directly on the top along the sound board. Then each sensor between strings except the high e sensor should be directly behind it. I'm told although this is not recommended for regular guitars because mine is such a small body this will have better sound. I sure hope so. Wonder if a temporary tape mount would confirm this to be a better position or not?

At any regard it will be tricky to reach and do the install but I'm sure I can get it. This time I'll be sure to have some sort of visual confirmation of placement.

I think I will tape my bore scope in or I can use my action camera loping up (as long as I don't drip on it) and watch it via my phone using the wifi. I'll see which method will work best.

[Mischief]

I installed my new hybrid pickup in tonight. It's very late so I only played with it enough to get an initial tone adjustment done on the preamp.

I have a concern about where the K&K tech advised me to mount my disks (far side of pins on SB instead of near side which would be under the bridge.) the K&K on its own is a bit boomy and a bit muddy. Not real bad but I thought the K&K would have sounded cleaner and more clear on its own. It still sounds natural.
With the mic blended I can get a good sound. But I wonder if it could have been better.

I mentioned this on another thread where'd I was talking about the pickup system and had some questions. I thought I would just follow up here to in case anyone was wondering how it went.

[midwinter]

No system is perfect. Regardless of what you install, you're going to have to tweak and compromise to make it work.

Take your time getting it dialed in.

[DrJamie]

My local guitar shop recommended the Lyric for my new Gibson LG-2 3/4 guitar (Arlo Guthrie model). The body was too small for my first choice, the Fishman Ellipse Blend mic/ust. I was so unhappy with the Lyric (on a gig, no less), that they let me trade up to the Anthem SL, which adds the UST to the mic. Big improvement, and still fits inside the small body. I do not use outboard EQ, at this point. The Lyric had that boxy, thin sound, many complain about. They are widely used, and must sound good with the right EQ. It wasn't my cup of bourbon.

[Mischief]

Just an update.
I am now running the K&K mini passively and through a 1 mohm input basic pedal.

I have trailed this at my local open mic where I have been having the key issues with the Lyric. Well the sound was good at first but the pickup was a bit hot once I stood in front of the foldback.

The sound guy then cut the bass a lot. It again sounded thin and I realized why the lyric was sounding okay at home a don my stuff but not at my open mic.

I think my little guitar has a very active top and the lyric and SBT pickups etc make it more challenging for the sound guy. Often the fold backs are extremely loud (most that play at this open mike are small loud bands)
So I may have faulted the lyric and this guitar combination a bit falsely.

The K&K sounds really good, I think the lyric in this guitar was still good (but better in a little bigger guitar) but the K&K is a nicer fit.

Again when I first sound checked and was facing the FOH sound guy I was woah this is great. Nice full sound. But once I stepped up to the mic and heard a tinge of feedback allot the sudden I heard that familiar thin sound.

So I could try finding an EQ sound that would help me to step right up. But for this venue I think maybe a simple sound hole cover will be the answer. Ill have to try that.

Anyway I wanted anyone contemplating the lyric to have this latest information from my experience.

Cheers

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Mischief

Just an update.
I am now running the K&K mini passively and through a 1 mohm input basic pedal.

I have trailed this at my local open mic where I have been having the key issues with the Lyric. Well the sound was good at first but the pickup was a bit hot once I stood in front of the foldback.

The sound guy then cut the bass a lot. It again sounded thin and I realized why the lyric was sounding okay at home a don my stuff but not at my open mic.

I think my little guitar has a very active top and the lyric and SBT pickups etc make it more challenging for the sound guy. Often the fold backs are extremely loud (most that play at this open mike are small loud bands)
So I may have faulted the lyric and this guitar combination a bit falsely.

The K&K sounds really good, I think the lyric in this guitar was still good (but better in a little bigger guitar) but the K&K is a nicer fit.

Again when I first sound checked and was facing the FOH sound guy I was woah this is great. Nice full sound. But once I stepped up to the mic and heard a tinge of feedback allot the sudden I heard that familiar thin sound.

So I could try finding an EQ sound that would help me to step right up. But for this venue I think maybe a simple sound hole cover will be the answer. Ill have to try that.

Anyway I wanted anyone contemplating the lyric to have this latest information from my experience.

Cheers

That's very interesting. Sounds like you're getting to the bottom of it. I've been working late and haven't been able to get home before the post office closes. I hope to be able to drop the item off this weekend. Is it possible that you are hearing only the monitors? Maybe the FOH is fine. Perhaps they can cut the volume on the monitors for you? They always sound awful when setup for rock bands.

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[Wyllys]

Blended mic/pickup systems are a bear to monitor. As a sound guy I've found that if you just HAVE to have a monitor, placement is crucial and coaxial monitors seem to work a tad better.

But the most effective thing is to take a separate pick-up only feed for monitor use and keep the mic out of it.

[Mischief]

I record Mains samples and speak with audience after to confirm my suspicions.
So I'm certain that my main sound is always getting thinned out.

One good thing is. I am learning a lot through all this. I think at the end I will know how to deal with these issues a lot better and trouble shoot easier.

I sure appreciate all the help along the way.

[Mischief]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

That's very interesting. Sounds like you're getting to the bottom of it. I've been working late and haven't been able to get home before the post office closes. I hope to be able to drop the item off this weekend. Is it possible that you are hearing only the monitors? Maybe the FOH is fine. Perhaps they can cut the volume on the monitors for you? They always sound awful when setup for rock bands.

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Thanks Dave I appreciate that you've been a big help.