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  #16  
Old 01-07-2017, 03:23 PM
printer2 printer2 is offline
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Not a new thing.

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  #17  
Old 01-07-2017, 04:04 PM
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Perhaps I am just not a non-discerning player, but I have NEVER specified to a luthier on a custom commission an exact neck profile by dimension. I have expressed a qualitative preference for an oval and not a modified V profile. Features such as nut width, string spacing, fb radius and scale length are defined numerically, but neck profiles are defined qualitatively allowing my luthier to interpret. So far, ALL of my guitar necks are different, but all are comfortable for me.
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  #18  
Old 01-07-2017, 04:35 PM
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Bruce Sexauer Bruce Sexauer is offline
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Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7 View Post
Perhaps I am just not a non-discerning player, but I have NEVER specified to a luthier on a custom commission an exact neck profile by dimension. I have expressed a qualitative preference for an oval and not a modified V profile. Features such as nut width, string spacing, fb radius and scale length are defined numerically, but neck profiles are defined qualitatively allowing my luthier to interpret. So far, ALL of my guitar necks are different, but all are comfortable for me.
A good thing you don't, Bob, at least in my opinion, as describing neck FEEL is a bit like describing TONE, there is little common vocabulary and yet others will THINK they know what you mean. Thickness, width, and string spacing are another thing altogether.
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  #19  
Old 01-07-2017, 04:51 PM
LouieAtienza LouieAtienza is offline
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Coming from the electric guitar world, I don't find this all unusual. Sure one couldn't match a profile EXACT by hand, but we can come pretty close.

I remember when Eddie Van Halen left Kramer Guitars and got signed with Ernie Ball/Music Man, they actually digitized the playing surface of his Frankenstrat, down to every worn spot, so that every neck would feel as close as possible. In ye olde days, a silicone or other releasable mold could be made for a plaster casting that could be used with a pantograph, i.e. DupliCarver.
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  #20  
Old 01-07-2017, 04:52 PM
LouieAtienza LouieAtienza is offline
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Not a new thing.

No but a pretty obvious one...
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  #21  
Old 01-07-2017, 05:08 PM
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I think if you aren't comfortable with the neck, you should get one that works better for you. I can feel pretty subtle differences in spacing and depth. They usually aren't make or break for me, but I can see that if something isn't working for you it isn't working. Don't overthink it.
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  #22  
Old 01-07-2017, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer View Post
I have never had a customer more specific in their request than you seem to be, as virtually all are more emotionally based at the cost of technical specifics....Thickness at the 1st fret is usually between 52/64 and 54/64, and this is the diference between skinny and chunky for most people! This difference can be a deal breaker! So you spending that kind of money for a new neck is not that weird IMO, a lot cheaper than a new guitar and a lot more likely to give you what you want . . .
Bruce, your comment is very interesting as 52/64 = 0.8125" and 54/64 = 0.844" and that is almost the exact range of my guitars with the outlier Borges at 0.875". Yet the 0.815" OM in question is certainly not a "deal breaker". This whole thing would never have come up until I thought that I'd re-fret and put some newer tuners on the OM, priced it out to about $600, and then saw on another thread that a new neck would be about $1,500 (by another luthier on a different guitar here in the Custom Shop). So I got to thinking, which is a bad thing . The luthier that built this guitar is a bit higher priced (est. $2,000) than most and building a new neck takes him away from other guitar builds and his wait list - so there is a premium associated with that which doesn't bother me. This neck is a fully bound and I will try to use the old fretboard as the inlays are intricate and the color matches the inlays on the guitar borders. The idea is to add a 1/32" ebony strip to each side of the old fretboard and hopefully that would either blend right in or add a touch of detail in front of the fretboard binding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7 View Post
Perhaps I am just not a non-discerning player, but I have NEVER specified to a luthier on a custom commission an exact neck profile by dimension. I have expressed a qualitative preference for an oval and not a modified V profile. Features such as nut width, string spacing, fb radius and scale length are defined numerically, but neck profiles are defined qualitatively allowing my luthier to interpret. So far, ALL of my guitar necks are different, but all are comfortable for me.
Bob, I never thought I was "discerning" either! My 11 guitars are vastly different and 7 are pre-1938 so you get what you get. That's what is so silly with all of this and why I wanted to see what kinds of things folks typically ask their luthiers to build on custom orders. I have had 3 luthier builds and I asked for 1 13/16 (on 2) and 1 3/4 (on the other) x 2 3/8 and a rounded V or a pointy C type shape. I have never measured in 32nds or 64ths, or thousandths(!) and never once thought to measure the thickness, even on the vintage Gibson thick ones until yesterday.

Well, thanks for the replies and suggestions. I don't want to overthink it but I do appreciate it. I'll sleep on it a few days and maybe even try some low tack tape.
Cheers,
(edit: Thanks justonwo, LOL I must have been typing while you were writing your post.)
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  #23  
Old 01-07-2017, 09:44 PM
Martin Keith Martin Keith is offline
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Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
Not a new thing.

Since OP is discussing minute measurements and a desire for accuracy, I thought it only fair to judge the image as if it were 100% dimensionally accurate and proportional. That's OK, right?

So, with that in mind - if the pea were the size of my head, and the mattresses only about as thick as your average comforter, I'm guessing I might feel it too, despite my lack of royal pedigree.

Cheers,
Martin
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  #24  
Old 01-07-2017, 10:40 PM
jessupe jessupe is offline
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"here, here's a rasp and some sandpaper, don't hurt yourself"
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  #25  
Old 01-07-2017, 11:46 PM
Howard Klepper Howard Klepper is offline
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Originally Posted by blindboyjimi View Post
This neck is a fully bound and I will try to use the old fretboard as the inlays are intricate and the color matches the inlays on the guitar borders. The idea is to add a 1/32" ebony strip to each side of the old fretboard and hopefully that would either blend right in or add a touch of detail in front of the fretboard binding.
Jim, that will not work because the fretboard will stick out 1/32" beyond the neck at either side. Happily for you, because you also want the neck thicker, R&Ring the fretboard and adding about a .050" shim between the neck and fretboard will allow the neck shape to be faired into the wider board. Without that shim, the board can't be faired in to the neck barrel. The neck will need a refinish. There will also still be the issue of the fretboard and nut being wider than the bottom of the headstock. That won't affect playability, but it will look odd.

It wouldn't cost that much more to make a new neck. You can still reuse the inlays or the fretboard (with the 1/32" ebony wings).
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  #26  
Old 01-08-2017, 03:24 AM
frankhond frankhond is offline
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I think it's the neck thickness and shape that makes it feel thin. Looking at the drawings, you would need to add wood all over. Shimming the fretboard may still not create a good shape. The best option would be to make a new neck with exactly the shape you want. Leave the old neck completely intact (dont butcher inlays etc). That way, the old neck can be put back to restore the guitar to original if in the future you want to sell it.
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  #27  
Old 01-08-2017, 10:55 AM
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Smile Cool thread

This thread is very informative! And right up my alley...

Fortunately I do not need to re neck anything, but I have carved one down myself! It was an inexpensive model newer Taylor and it fit great when I was done. I gave it a 90s profile.

I did not refinish, as it was not worth the $, but just oiled it and played it!

Going larger in size is an entire other ball of wax!

How far away is your builder from you? Maybe take or ship him your fave neck axe.

Insure it for BIG BUCKS, and hope for the best?

Cheers

Paul
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  #28  
Old 01-08-2017, 11:20 AM
JoeCharter JoeCharter is offline
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This is the OP's guitar and it's his money. It's not cool to be judgmental of other folks' preferences but since the OP did ask for opinions...

Personally I would never tinker with a guitar just because the neck is a little like this or too much like that. I'd learn how to deal with it.

Folks who play casually but yet are extremely picky about specs remind me of guys who talk seriously about racing calipers and light weight wheels only to drive to the local mall at 25 mph.

There's nothing wrong with buying what you want with the money that you've earned -- but trying to justify the function can oftentimes be a real stretch.
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  #29  
Old 01-08-2017, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Klepper View Post
Jim, that will not work because the fretboard will stick out 1/32" beyond the neck at either side. Happily for you, because you also want the neck thicker, R&Ring the fretboard and adding about a .050" shim between the neck and fretboard will allow the neck shape to be faired into the wider board. Without that shim, the board can't be faired in to the neck barrel. The neck will need a refinish. There will also still be the issue of the fretboard and nut being wider than the bottom of the headstock. That won't affect playability, but it will look odd.

It wouldn't cost that much more to make a new neck. You can still reuse the inlays or the fretboard (with the 1/32" ebony wings).
Good morning Howard and frankhond, maybe I wasn't writing clearly. I'm am indeed solely thinking of making a new mahogany neck but re-using the ebony fretboard and inlays. I was not thinking of shimming the fretboard thickness as someone else had mentioned. I am a 1/3 of the way to the price of a new neck by re-fretting, installing new tuners and a set up. With EVO frets and a fresh reset, I'd be good for another 28 years, so a new neck would not seem outrageous. The problem is that now that I can see on paper how minuscule the changes are, it seems ludicrous. Yet moving from my 1 3/4" guitars to my 1 13/16" guitars is the same 2/32" and it "feels" significant.

Now that I've slept on it, it seems funny to me that saxophones, violins, pianos, and most classical guitars are very standardized. If you are a 6'2" or a 4' 11" piano player, you just adjust the seat height. Back in the day Martin changed neck shapes/nut widths every few decades. Yet now routinely makes 4 neck sizes at 1 11/16, 1 3/4, 1 13/16, and 1 7/8 and in Mod V, MLO, low oval, PA, etc. Too many choices.
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