Abrasive planers

[j. Kinnaird]

I've about had it with my performax 16-32 abrasive planer. I'm looking at an upgrade and wondered if you guys had any recommendations. The delta 25 inch model looked interesting as did the grizzley 1066. I dont have any experience with the grizzley and very little with the delta so I would appreciate some opinions on those choices or any others that you guys could recommend

[Bruce Sexauer]

I use a Chinese made double drum 25" 500lb sander by a company called Lobos. It looks pretty much just like the offering from any of the other companies. I bought it used from a cabinet shop. It was 10 years old when I bought it 25 years ago. At some point I replaced the belt feed motor with one from Grizzly and it fit right in. Still using the original feed belt and the tool is accurate within .02 if I stay on top of the abrasive load. While the sanders are all very similar, the hold downs for the abrasive vary quite a bit it their ease of use. Mine are not so good, while the ones I've seen on "General"s offering (owned by a neighbor of mine) are quite good. I have been tempted by Grizzly's small wide belt but mine actually works quite well and spending $6k at this point in my career arc make no financial sense as it adds hundreds of dollars to the cost of each of my remaining pieces. I paid $600 for my sander and it works very well.

[tadol]

I have the performax 22/44, and while it seems to be essentially OK, I've had issues with parallelism. Good enough for general work, but . . . . I also wish there was a better paper clamping technique. I've looked at the General and the Delta both of which seemed very nice, I've not considered the Grizzly, but thats mostly the result of bad experiences many years ago, and I should consider them again - I'm hoping for used, and not in a rush -

Any specific issues that you're having? Or just a general assortment of dislikes?

[Howard Klepper]

The Delta 25" (listed in some places as 26", but same model#) appears to be the same machine as the General International. Most likely from the same factory in Taiwan. On sale at a good price right now from Home Depot. IIrc from when I was shopping 7 years ago, there is a General with a oscillating drums; that sounded like a good idea, but more expensive of course.

The Griz 1066 gets good reviews. Their wrap installation system looks to me like a PITA, tho. The 1066Z uses hook and loop, but that is inherently less precise for thicknessing.

Delta is 3hp vs. 5hp for Griz.

Hard decision, since these are likely to be the most expensive machine in the shop, and may require an upgrade in your wiring and your dust collection. I've been happy with a 25" dual drum Powermatic, but it costs more.

None of these machines is actually designed as an abrasive planer--they are intended to do finish sanding on furniture and door panels. We can make them work for our purpose, but they all take a little persuading in one way or another. It is good to go for 24-26". Not only will you get more power and a heavier duty machine, but also you can put joined tops and backs through at an angle, which greatly reduces loading of the wrap.

[CaE]

I had the jet 16/32- pretty much the same as the performax. I had the opportunity to grab a 15 inch open end oscillating wide belt sander at a grizzly scratch and dent sale a few years ago. It took a few parts to get it up and running, but I sold the jet for the amount it cost me to get the wide belt. So I came out even.

I'll never look back. Changing belts is super easy. Its very accurate. Material runs through at a much faster rate. And the belts last longer than on a drum because they don't heat up as easily- meaning less gumming up of the belts. If you can find a decent wide belt used or at a scratch and dent sale, grab it. Leave drum sanders behind. You won't regret it.

[thomasfelty]

Wide belt is the only way to go for both speed and just plain getting the job done well. I've heard that the grizzy is a good machine. I have access to a 36" Timesaver in the custom woodworking shop I use to run. What a great machine the other nice thing is the 12" Baker re-saw with a 30 hp motor with power feed and hold downs that cuts most wood like butter. Some African Blackwood I had gave the machine a hard time. Even with a 1-1/4" carbide blade is was a tough go. I do have a couple of drum sanders but rarely use them except for small runs. If you have access to 3 phase go in debt and get a real sander.

[j. Kinnaird]

Thanks for everyone's input. My shop is not huge, and floor space is a consideration. Price is a consideration too. I dont have 3 phase but I do have 220 v service. It seems to me that a drum sander is the most practical machine for me. I wish i had the money and space for a wide belt sander but that is not in the cards. One of my issues with the performax is the fact that at least mine is not rigid enough to sand to the same tolerances near the support as it does on the side away from the support. Too much flex.

[TEK]

John
I have the Grizzly 1066 drum sander and so far have been very happy it. I got lucky and saw it listed on our local craigslist for a song. Turned out it was only about a mile from me. I am just a hobby builder but I have built 18 guitars in 2 years since I got it, thicknessing sides, backs and tops and I have only changed the paper 1 time.
Travis

[Tim McKnight]

I started out with a 16-32 sander and it worked for a decade but I was always loading up paper and futzing with other problems that plagued it. I bit the bullet and bought a 18" wide Grizzly belt sander. What a great tool and time saver. The 16-32 took off .002" per pass and the wide belt sander takes off up to .020" per pass on hard wood or .030" on soft wood. They say time is money and this tool is certainly a time saver. It's been extremely accurate and 100% reliable for 15 years and I'm still using ORIGINAL abrasive belts!

Small drum sanders will always have abrasive paper loading issues due to much higher surface speeds. Belt resin loading isn't a problem with a belt sander since the surface speed is much lower and it doesn't build up the heat that boils out resins from many of the exotic woods we work with.

[Ken Franklin]

If I had the funds and the shop space I'd spring for a wide belt sander too. I've learned to live with my 16-32 but if I was starting over I'd probably get the Supermax 19-38. It gets good reviews and they have worked out some of the problems the 16-32 has. http://www.rockler.com/supermax-19-38-drum-sander

Just curious Tim, how small of a piece can you run through your wide belt sander?

[Tim McKnight]

6" long is about as short as I can feed through it Ken. For that reason, I still use my 16-32 for thickness sanding shorts like nuts and saddles.

I can take wood down to .020" thickness and thinner if I send it through over a platen on the belt sander.

As far as floor space, the wide belt sander foot print is about the same as my 16-32 (when its mounted to a stand).

[j. Kinnaird]

That wide belt job looks really attractive. I see that it needs a 40 amp circuit which would take some rewiring of the shop. And the weight is substantial. 840 lbs. Not sure I could get that up my basement steps. And over $5000 is a lot of money to spend. I do have a decent resaw band saw and access to a really nice hardwood store so selling guitar sets could be an option to help pay for the hardware. All that said, its very tempting. I like the fact that you don't change sanding belts very often. I go through a lot of paper on that 16-32.

[John Osthoff]

I have wanted that 18" sander that Tim has even before he got his. We probably discussed a number of times way back when. I still have my Performax, and although it is slow, it gets the job done. I suppose if I was doing more volume it would make sense to get one of these. I still have my eye on it, but have not justified it. I will be using my performax this morning, so we will see how frustrated I get.

Don't quote me on the electrical requirements as I didn't look them up, but you will probably need #8 wire for 40 AMPS and a double pole breaker (40 amps per leg)

Also you need air, but I think it is a small amount, 2 or 3 CFM. (Speaking of air, my compressor is giving up, so I am in the market for one of those.)

[j. Kinnaird]

John you are right about the difficulty of justifying the expense. I wish there were a consortium of local builders that could buy a few tools like that and share the expense.

[CaE]

My wide belt takes up about the same amount of space as my old 16/32 and cost less than $1k after I put parts in it. Not bad.