Are the sides too long?

[SnowManSnow]

I received a stewmac 000 kit a few days ago and have started placing it in the mold for the build, however it is TIGHT!
I'm scared to tighten the mold more. Should I trim off the bottom of one of the sides to make room? Or build it with a slightly larger lower bout?
The top and back still fit fine.





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[Bruce Sexauer]

When I build, I always leave the sides long until assembly, at which point I trim them most carefully. They don't actually HAVE to touch, though certain parts of the work go more easier if they do. The graft takes care of any small discrepancy.

[SnowManSnow]

Thanks Bruce. That's what I thought. I'll make a trim little at a time and see if I can get it just right


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[LouieAtienza]

As Bruce, my preference is to have them touch. Really, the idea is to tighten your mold FIRST, then fit the rims to the mold. I also prefer (and I'm sure most do) that the seam is centered on the lower bout, which aids in aligning everything afterwards. Which means trimming both pieces to fit. I clamp one side in first, mark and trim, then put the other side in and mark off that.

I've cut them many ways, with a tablesaw (and zero clearance insert,) Japanese saw and straightedge, utility knife and straightedge (making MULTIPLE passes), clamped to a straight board using a router with a piloted bit... The idea is to make perpendicular cuts so that you do not deform the box.

[Truckjohn]

Answer: Does it fit into the case. If no: The sides are too long
If the body fits into the case - it's fine. 1/8" will not kill a guitar build.

Thanks.

[SnowManSnow]

Originally Posted by LouieAtienza

As Bruce, my preference is to have them touch. Really, the idea is to tighten your mold FIRST, then fit the rims to the mold. I also prefer (and I'm sure most do) that the seam is centered on the lower bout, which aids in aligning everything afterwards. Which means trimming both pieces to fit. I clamp one side in first, mark and trim, then put the other side in and mark off that.



I've cut them many ways, with a tablesaw (and zero clearance insert,) Japanese saw and straightedge, utility knife and straightedge (making MULTIPLE passes), clamped to a straight board using a router with a piloted bit... The idea is to make perpendicular cuts so that you do not deform the box.

Why didn't I think to clamp it in and mark it? See us noobs just don't know the ropes yet...




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[SnowManSnow]

Another related question.... and it just because I'm trying to get thing just right (as much as I can at this point).
What do y'all do to get the sides to match the mold around the waist... particularly just past the waist toward the lower bout... no matter how I adjust my spreader I get a gap...
I really like the lmii spacers, they are WIDE, but alas I'm using some that just spread the waist...
Any ideas?


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[Bruce Sexauer]

The entire industry seems to have been led down the garden path by supply side as far as molds (among other things) are concerned. I haven't used a mold for twenty years.

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by SnowManSnow

Another related question.... and it just because I'm trying to get thing just right (as much as I can at this point).
What do y'all do to get the sides to match the mold around the waist... particularly just past the waist toward the lower bout... no matter how I adjust my spreader I get a gap...
I really like the lmii spacers, they are WIDE, but alas I'm using some that just spread the waist...
Any ideas?


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It may require touching up with a bending iron to get it exact, as the wood can spring back some. Especially with mahogany and mahogany-type woods...

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

The entire industry seems to have been led down the garden path by supply side as far as molds (among other things) are concerned. I haven't used a mold for twenty years.

The results have been pretty spectacular!

[Howard Klepper]

The combination of the internet and the guitar making schools that arose about the same time has led to a standardization of building methods where there used to be more diversity. New builders seem to want to know how everyone else does it, instead of figuring something out themselves by understanding the purpose of the task and how it fits into the overall construction. Then they will often never bother to figure out why they are doing what they have been shown. This is especially true with issues about guitar geometry, which calls for some fairly complex three dimensional visualization.

But to the question: I do not precut my sides to their final contour, which apparently is what gets taught in some of the schools, since that would require perfection in placing them in the bender and eliminate options about body depth that I like to leave open. I leave the edges of the sides straight when I bend, although the sides may taper from tail to head. Like Bruce, I build without molds, although molds are very helpful to a beginner. Without them, the sides need to be tweaked on a hot pipe (or Sloan bender) to eliminate the effects of springback.

I hold my overlength side which has been tweaked to shape up to the half-guitar template I have made for that body shape and size, and mark where the side should end at both top and bottom. Because of the body taper, the corner at the neck and tail blocks will only be 90º on one edge--almost always the edge toward the guitar's top (because the taper is all in the back with standard construction). I choose that edge in part based on which edge of a tapered side is closest to being parallel to the grain. Then I put a square at my mark, against the edge of the side that will have the square corner, and draw a line for the cut. I make the cut on a bandsaw that has the table square to the blade, with the edge that will have the square corner against the table--so the two sides will face opposite ways for this cut. [If you use a bandsaw for this cut, tilt the side just a bit toward you so the cut starts at the table and moves up; if it started at the upper edge, the saw could pull the side in.] I cut just outside my line. Then I go to my disc sander, which also has its table squared to the disc, and use that to trim to the line, because it makes a more accurate edge than the bandsaw where the sides will butt against each other. That shouldn't be needed if you use a backsaw--just make the cut carefully right on your line. Then I glue the blocks in on a flat surface (just a work table), again with that edge that has the square angle (almost always the top edge) against the table. If the cut is square, the two sides can have their edge flat against the table and the butt joint will fit tightly. If it doesn't, you get to clean it up with the end graft, but I take it as a personal challenge to get a good butt joint with the grain pattern aligned.

[Shuksan]

Originally Posted by LouieAtienza

As Bruce, my preference is to have them touch. Really, the idea is to tighten your mold FIRST, then fit the rims to the mold. I also prefer (and I'm sure most do) that the seam is centered on the lower bout, which aids in aligning everything afterwards. Which means trimming both pieces to fit. I clamp one side in first, mark and trim, then put the other side in and mark off that.

I've cut them many ways, with a tablesaw (and zero clearance insert,) Japanese saw and straightedge, utility knife and straightedge (making MULTIPLE passes), clamped to a straight board using a router with a piloted bit... The idea is to make perpendicular cuts so that you do not deform the box.

Here's yet another method for cutting the ends of the sides. I cut them on the band saw as Glenn LaSalle demonstrates in his youtube video starting at the 3:00 mark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrgRKKsxL-M

It's fast, accurate, and gives a perfectly perpendicular cut (top edge down on the band saw table. Works like a charm.

[SnowManSnow]

I did cut mine down. I just used a razor saw and a straight edge to keep it flat.
For some reason I wanted to do it by hand:/


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[LouieAtienza]

A more pragmatic reason for cutting the sides "to size" butted against each other: It prevents a mess when it comes time to gluing the end block. Before I place the sides to the mold, I tape the joint together (and also at the heel area.) This keeps glue from getting into the grain on the outside, and removes the need for using wax paper to protect the side from being adhered to the mold.

[Otterhound]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

The entire industry seems to have been led down the garden path by supply side as far as molds (among other things) are concerned. I haven't used a mold for twenty years.

How do you stabilize the sides for radiusing the top and bottom glue edge ?