I IV V question

[Guitars+gems]

I put together these chords: E Cadd9 G Dsus2 D

Is this a I IV V in the key of G but with a vi? But I'm using the vi as a Major instead of minor. So how does that work? I could play the E as a minor but it doesn't sound quite as good to me.

And the fact that it would really be VI IV I V doesn't matter does it? The key would still be G? Because then the G would be the tonic chord. But the D doesn't want to resolve to the G. It sounds resolved at the D. I am confused.

I know that all that should matter is that I'm satisfied with the sound, but I feel like I'm breaking some rule for what's supposed to sound good together. So then, maybe it doesn't sound as good as I think it does?

Also, the Cadd9 would just still count as the IV chord? Even though it has the 9th?

Maybe I'm just spinning my wheels here. Would some kind person please give me a push?

[rick-slo]

Could be key of E (especially if played in that order). IMO stop worrying about the theory behind odd chord sequences that you make up. Use your ears, learn songs, and regarding theory learn that behind the normal chord progressions (no parallel chords, borrowed chords, etc.).

[Gitarre]

I'll be interested in the replies to your question. Not that it does any good but my instructor could answer this for you. He explains these kinds of things to me all the time but I only retain 6.4% of what he tells me. Yesterday I asked him about dominant 7ths again. I got what I was looking for but also a while lot more. He loves talking music an der theory. I told him the main thing I learned yesterday was not to ask questions.

[Guitars+gems]

Derek, thank you. I was hoping you'd answer.
So it is an odd progression then, which I suspected.
Yes, I have been trying to learn the theory behind normal chord progressions, and I learn songs, use my ears, etc. But take a song like, It's Only Love, and it has every chord in the key of G except for an A. So, that doesn't fit into the I IV V pattern. And I was trying to figure out why, by making up some odd progressions to see where the chords are pulled from.

[rick-slo]

One can make up anything. For example what key has the chords
F-C-D-A-E-G-B? You could twist chord theory into knots to come up with
the root chord (key) being any of those chords. Is it a helpful thing to do?

[tdq]

EDIT: I realised I was incorrect, so I removed it. Woops.

[Guitars+gems]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

One can make up anything. For example what key has the chords
F-C-D-A-E-G-B? You could twist chord theory into knots to come up with
the root chord (key) being any of those chords. Is it a helpful thing to do?

Ok, I get it. Every key has the potential to use a chord made from every other letter in the musical alphabet, I guess? And no, it's not helpful to twist chord theory into knots. But, I read the theory and then I like to test it out, so that I can hear it in action on the guitar. Otherwise it's just a theory on paper which means little to me and I can't remember it. How is a piece of music transposed from one set of chords to another in a different key, if the original key is not certain? The I IV V is useful to me for that purpose. Outside of using a capo, I don't know how to do that.

Originally Posted by Gitarre

I'll be interested in the replies to your question. Not that it does any good but my instructor could answer this for you. He explains these kinds of things to me all the time but I only retain 6.4% of what he tells me. Yesterday I asked him about dominant 7ths again. I got what I was looking for but also a while lot more. He loves talking music an der theory. I told him the main thing I learned yesterday was not to ask questions.

Gitarre, I feel you.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Guitars+gems

How is a piece of music transposed from one set of chords to another in a different key, if the original key is not certain?

Knowing the change in key can certainly make figuring out things faster, but other than that you do not need to know the key. Knowing the notes that make up various chords can speed things up when transposing, but other than that you do not need that knowledge either. You can always figure a transposition out by using half steps and moving each note up or down the same number of half steps. In fact sometimes with unusual chords that is the fastest, most reliable way, that, and going by ear.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Guitars+gems

Derek, thank you. I was hoping you'd answer.
So it is an odd progression then, which I suspected.

Not really. It's conventional for rock major keys to borrow from the parallel minor. I.e., a song in the key of E major will usually contain a D, and quite commonly also contain G or C, and perhaps Am (all from E minor). Yours is maybe a little unusual in (a) not containing A or B, and (b) using add9 and sus2 variants.

However, to say this is "in the key of" E major, E would have to sound like the keynote, to the tonal centre of the song - and I'm not sure it does.
If, in your case, you think G sounds like the key, then the key is G, and you do indeed have a rather unusual major VI chord. (E major chords do occur in G major, but usually as secondary dominants, resolving to Am.)
But the sound of a key can also depend on how long each chord lasts, or the rate of changes (the "harmonic rhythm"). It may be that your key is D, making C the bVII (very common), and E the major II (less common).

Originally Posted by Guitars+gems

Yes, I have been trying to learn the theory behind normal chord progressions, and I learn songs, use my ears, etc. But take a song like, It's Only Love, and it has every chord in the key of G except for an A.

You mean Am? A major is not in key of G.
And if you mean the Beatles song, that's in key of C, and contains a Bb chord (bVII ), along with most of the usual diatonic chords (F, G, Am, Em). The ii chord (Dm) is indeed missing, but a song doesn't have to include every chord! The other chromaticism is a Gaug chord.
The Beatles, of course, did not study theory, and learned all they knew from copying other people's songs.

Originally Posted by Guitars+gems

So, that doesn't fit into the I IV V pattern. And I was trying to figure out why, by making up some odd progressions to see where the chords are pulled from.

Good idea! Your ear always has the right answers. In a sense it knows more theory than you ever will, because it's absorbed the rules of the language from all the music you've ever heard in your life (even when you weren't really listening).

The problem comes when you start studying theory, and you encounter these supposed "rules", such as I-IV-V, or the notion that every chord has to come from the same scale. You have to remember that theory is only describing "common practices" - it's not laying down rules. I-IV-V sequence are indeed very common, and so are chords sharing the same scale. That's why theory books start with those things - the standard basics. As you progress through your study, you will find other practices being dealt with - such as the various kinds of chromatic harmony (secondary chords, borrowed chords, etc), which are just a little less common. Eventually, you'll find that everything that sounds good in music has been covered by theory (including ideas you never heard of) - but that could be years down the road of study. Meanwhile, your ear pretty much knows it all already!

As rick suggests, there's nothing to stop you using any chord you like - you just have to like it; which means your aural judgement kicks in, and you will therefore find yourself using sounds which have been used before (even if rarely), and rejecting others for just being too weird. Your ear may not always be able to judge which of all the possible "right" chords are best (because there are so many options which could work), but it will certainly know which are "wrong" - they're the ones you don't want! (And that applies even to chords for which there could be some theoretical explanation - if it sounds wrong to you, it's wrong and that's it.)

The "wrong chords" idea always reminds me of the George Harrison's sardonic "Only a Northern Song", where he sings "It doesn't really matter what chords I play", accompanying that line (and the next) with an apparently random set of chords. But when you examine it, the chords all make sense musically. They're not random at all, because his ear was good enough to reject anything that would sound wrong. They certainly sound a little surprising in context, but they follow a logic.

[Guitars+gems]

Thank you so much Jon, for taking the time to write this very helpful post. You've given me lots of direction here. I'm going to experiment with some of the principles you've talked about, starting my research with Only a Northern Song . I will let you know where it gets me!

[Mbroady]

Originally Posted by Gitarre

I told him the main thing I learned yesterday was not to ask questions.

Ha...That is Funny

[RustyAxe]

Originally Posted by Guitars+gems

I put together these chords: E Cadd9 G Dsus2 D

Is this a I IV V in the key of G but with a vi? But I'm using the vi as a Major instead of minor. So how does that work? I could play the E as a minor but it doesn't sound quite as good to me.

There's no I IV V there ... in any key. Without knowing the key and/or tonic you can't really speak in terms of intervals.