Pre-owned Cordoba Master Series - hitting the market

[zaskar1]

Originally Posted by mc1

seems odd for his teacher to recommend a specific brand of $5,000-15,000 guitars. do you really think his teacher was recommending a california made hill guitar as an upgrade to his goya?

my teacher is a serious guitar player, and is a faculty member at the local community college. his opinion is well respected by me.
i played his kenny, and some other ones, the new world (chinese kenny), and the locally sourced at some local guitar events several times, and
i prefer the locally sourced, even though its more $$.

my goya is a great sounding guitar, but the kenny hill is much better.
even with my limited ability i can tell the difference in playability and sound.

z

[mc1]

Originally Posted by zaskar1

my teacher is a serious guitar player, and is a faculty member at the local community college. his opinion is well respected by me.
i played his kenny, and some other ones, the new world (chinese kenny), and the locally sourced at some local guitar events several times, and
i prefer the locally sourced, even though its more $$.

my goya is a great sounding guitar, but the kenny hill is much better.
even with my limited ability i can tell the difference in playability and sound.

z

thanks for correcting me, seems like odd advice. i would hope the california made hill guitars were noticibly better than the new world line.

if i were going to spend $5-15k on a classical, i would certainly look at more than hill brand guitars.

[janepaints]

I avoid guitars with thick polyester/polyurethane finishes.. they're a sale-killer for me...it's why no cordobas have ever impressed me (tho i've never played their higher-end guitars)

IMO if the cordoba in question had its finish thinned carefully/professionally, it probably improved the sound...

I've twice (laboriously) scraped thick polyester films off (steel string) guitar tops--both times tone & volume were enhanced--or liberated might be the better word....poly is OK (and understandable) for inexpensive entry-level instruments but not for pricier ones offered as higher quality...scraping a poly finish off makes you realize such guitars are entombed in the equivalent of the gunk that milk jugs are made of: YUCK...and it's THICK...(and carefully scraping--not sanding--is the only way to get it off without risking affecting the wood--there are no chemicals i'm aware of that can do it.)

there are exceptions: the very-thin poly finishes taylor uses on some guitars (and which other guitar factories are now getting hip to.)...thin and good-sounding...yamaha also knows how to do good poly finishes, even on their lower-level classicals.

i'm a fan of godin's brands--i LOVE the oil finish on art & lutheries and some la patrie guitars...IMO it's part of why they sound good at a moderate price--the wood has not been 'entombed'--it can breathe, move, vibrate.

some folks seem very-concerned with having/keeping showroom-perfect gleamy finishes on their guitars...i don't: guitars are made to be played which (if ya do it right ) is naturally gonna create dings, scars, scrapes etc...i consider such as 'signs of a well-loved, often-played, probably good-sounding instrument'.

my 1962 goya g-10 nylon-string has a thin lacquer or shellac finish--easy to touch-up, as often a needed (and it's had neck re-sets, cracks repaired a-plenty, so it's needed it...an easy non-time-consuming chore.) it sounds great!

[zaskar1]

Originally Posted by janepaints

I avoid guitars with thick polyester/polyurethane finishes.. they're a sale-killer for me...it's why no cordobas have ever impressed me (tho i've never played their higher-end guitars)

my 1962 goya g-10 nylon-string has a thin lacquer or shellac finish--easy to touch-up, as often a needed (and it's had neck re-sets, cracks repaired a-plenty, so it's needed it...an easy non-time-consuming chore.) it sounds great!

thanks for the headsup on poly finishes
guess thats why my inexpensive epiJ200 sounds ok, but not like
the Gibson J-200, as it probably has a poly finish

my 64 Goya G-10 still sounds great. fortunately for me it hasnt needed any neck resets, or crack repairs, although the finish is showing finish cracks.

z

[dkstott]

I agree with Jane Paints on the thickness of the poly on a lot of the entry level Cordoba's. The same can be said for quite a few of the Alvarez, Yamaha and other makes.

But my feeling is that the thickness is much less on Cordoba's Luthier and Master series guitars. I love my GK Pro Negra.

[tkoehler1]

Here's another Torres, this time on delcamp:

http://www.classicalguitardelcamp.co...p?f=3&t=107746

I wonder if the Torres is the most popular (and thus hit the used market the most) or least popular (people who buy them don't like them and so they sell) of the master series.

[Red_Label]

Originally Posted by dkstott

I agree with Jane Paints on the thickness of the poly on a lot of the entry level Cordoba's. The same can be said for quite a few of the Alvarez, Yamaha and other makes.

But my feeling is that the thickness is much less on Cordoba's Luthier and Master series guitars. I love my GK Pro Negra.

I've owned ten Cordobas, mostly the higher-end Luthier and Espana series. All have been great and not coated in thick poly. My absolute favorites have been my two GK Pros (blancas). Such response, punch, and volume. Much more responsive than the higher end Yamaha, Takamine, Yairi, and Breedlove nylons that I've had. Granted, being flamencos they would tend to be more lightly built and responsive. But I also have a Cordoba C12 SP/IN classical that's louder and more responsive than those other brands as well. For factory-made instruments, it's very hard to beat the Cordobas in my experience.

[tkoehler1]

Well I couldn't help myself, and after months of looking I pulled the trigger on a 2014 Torres on delcamp. It arrived in very good shape after being carefully packed by the seller (who turned out to be a very nice guy, chatted with him quite a bit).

The Torres I received is made with magnificent wood. That's what surprised me about it the most. The spruce top is full of those little micro waves (that I associate with a good top) and the back and sides are fantastic EIR - dark, straight, with almost a purplely background to it. Reminds me of the EIR on the R Taylor I had, it's that good.

The sound is exactly like I expected, more Spanish and rich sounding, very sweet sounding up the neck. Lots of variation in tone depending on where you strike the strings. The neck has a slimmer profile which I like.

The poly finish is one strike against the Torres, after playing it I would venture to say that if Cordoba ever did this guitar with a French polished top, that would remove the last barrier to having a really strong Torres copy.

However it does sound great right now, and the guitar is practically brand new. It has no play wear or any other signs of handling and is in mint condition.

I have a Hill 630 Performance that is exactly the same size. I played them A/B for quite a while, the Hill has more volume (because of the double top and/or the twin sound ports) and the notes are a little more pure to the fundamental and start off a little faster. Thanks to being re-fretted with jumbo frets it's a little easier to play.

The Torres is no slouch but it's magic is really in that old world sound which I love. I don't have a big repertoire but the bach I know definitely sounds better on the Torres.

Life being what it is I won't keep them both. Right now I'm leaning towards the Torres but I am not in a hurry and I think more time will make the choice clear.

Torres on the right, Hill on the left.

[hesson11]

Congrats, tkoehler1. That's a beautiful guitar, and I even had my eye on it over at Decamp. I too have a Hill Performance 630 just like yours, and I love it. I do wish it were a bit brighter sounding and have wondered whether the Cordoba Torres might achieve that. But it sounds like you've found the Cordoba to be darker and richer sounding than the Hill. Is that correct? THANKS.
-Bob

[tkoehler1]

Thanks Bob, oh you have a 630 Hill as well? Good choice! I agree the Hill is quite the guitar. I've been playing them both all nite. I discovered the Hill has more ring on the treble strings when you go past the 12th fret, and the Torres has a little more sustain.

I would agree that the Torres is a little darker. More of a traditional Spanish sound. The basses have more color and the trebles have almost a little bit of distortion in them when you first strike the note.

Here's a quick fun vid of Andrew York playing the real deal. The Cordoba is not in the same league of course, but you can hear the Torres sound on it, especially the trebles that have that little bit of squawk.







I love this song btw, it's next on the learning list

[Red_Label]

Interesting that the Master Series Cordobas come with the same brown Humicase hardshell case that my Luthier series Cordobas came with. I picked up a Humicase Metro recently for my C12 and you'd think that the Master series Cordobas would come with Metro series cases instead.

[dkstott]

A year ago, after I bought my C-10 and GK Pro. I was on the hunt for a Metro case. I knew that I did not want a gig bag, but I wanted something light for transporting my guitar to lessons, open mics and guitar gatherings. Plus I wanted something that would help seal out the environment during the heat of summer or extremely dry winters in New England.

Metro cases were difficult to find... Cordoba referred me to other sellers. Those sellers typically had nothing but white models in stock. Any other color was backordered with no estimate of a availability.

I spent hours researching cases and finally found Crossrock cases. I bought mine through Amazon.

http://www.crossrockcase.com/index.p...t=read&did=482

They are very similar to the Metro cases, but a bit less expensive. The model I chose is not airline flight safe, but it works perfect for me. I haven't brought a guitar with me on a flight in many years. It's held up great for me in the past year.. Someone recently accidentally stood on the case at an event. It took the incident just great with no damage to the case or guitar.

Dave

[hesson11]

Originally Posted by tkoehler1

Thanks Bob, oh you have a 630 Hill as well? Good choice! I agree the Hill is quite the guitar. I've been playing them both all nite. I discovered the Hill has more ring on the treble strings when you go past the 12th fret, and the Torres has a little more sustain.

I would agree that the Torres is a little darker. More of a traditional Spanish sound. The basses have more color and the trebles have almost a little bit of distortion in them when you first strike the note.

Here's a quick fun vid of Andrew York playing the real deal. The Cordoba is not in the same league of course, but you can hear the Torres sound on it, especially the trebles that have that little bit of squawk.

tkoehler, if you happen to see this, I wonder if you could tell me what strings you've tried on these guitars and what you think of them. For my Hill Performance 630, I like Aquila Alabastro quite a bit, but I'd like to do some more experimenting. So far, the Aquilas are quite a bit clearer than the true nylons I've tried. THANKS!
-Bob

[tkoehler1]

Hey Bob, well I really dislike changing strings on a classical (still getting the hang of it) so I push it off as long as possible. So long that I've forgotten what kind of strings I have on it ! Maybe D'Addario J-46? I often put the empty string package in the case so I know what's on the guitar but I forgot that step as well.

Sorry I'm not more help!

I googled those Aquila Alabastro strings you mentioned and nylgut looks intriguing. I bought a set off Amazon and will give them a try (eventually). I got superior tension as I figured that would suit the shorter scale.

TK

[hesson11]

Thanks a lot, TK. That's probably a saner, less neurotic approach than many of us take! Just a word about the Aquilas. The first day or two, they tend to sound rather dull (at least on my guitars), but after that they really transform into what I perceive as a very vibrant, alive and rich sound. Thanks again.
-Bob