Rainsong myths and facts

[Carbonius]

I am getting very close to ordering a Rainsong, but I need some more help. I have only ordered 2 guitars online and both had to go back. One was a CA OX with horrible intonation. So bad that you couldn't just make a new saddle. Filling and recutting Rosewood is easy, not so with carbon! I have very sensitive ears, so bad intonation is a complete deal breaker.

I use the whole fretboard, so intonation at the 19th fret is important to me. I also play up there with open strings at the same time. That's when bad intonation rears it's ugly head. My Taylor 416 Ltd Sitka / Tasmanian blackwood is pretty balanced. The upper register sounds great with open strings. The problem is dead spots. They are deep and wide! Many notes go dead and they go dead fast!

Rainsong claims the following; "Performance Shape Casting also ensures that fretslots are accurately positioned for flawless intonation with no dead spots."

Flawless intonation??? There is no such thing. Why even say it? I chased it for decades and I know it's a myth. It instantly gets me concerned when someone says "flawless". There is "better" intonation, even "great" intonation, but not "flawless".

So then, are Rainsongs claims about having no dead spots also overreaching? D through G are notorious notes for dead spots. Every Taylor I play has some problems in the D to F range, most notably on the A string. I notice Seagull's and Martin's are better in this range. The Rainsong APSE I played was great, but are their other models great?

Do you have noticeable dead spots?

How good is Rainsong Intonation?

[jonfields45]

No noticeable dead spots in the half a dozen RainSongs I've owned over he years, but I would have to say the same for the equal number of Taylors I've bought, so maybe I'm the wrong reference. RainSong intonation seems exactly right to me, but again I've felt the same about every Taylor I've owned. My main guitar these days is a H-DR1100N2 with a MiSi Trio and I get many compliments on how it sounds when I play it without amplification (though I have to conclude that people must look at it and expect it to sound something less than a Martin or Taylor). With amplification it seems to be as good as that UST is going to be.

The entire top on a RainSong torques a little with the bridge which causes the fretboard extension to deflect slightly into the guitar for the no cutaway models (there is no top bracing on any RainSong). If you use the frets above the 14th with regularity, I would go with a cut-away model where the side supports the fretboard extension. However for my use the frets above the 14th (for example the end of "Hotel California") are fine on my dreadnought.

[jdinco]

I know we all hear different, but for some reason I hear intonation issues before anything else. I can pick it up with open chords or bar chords up the neck. Drives me crazy. I've never had any intonation issues with my Rainsong WS. The Emerald I just received had intonation issues on the E A D strings, but they ship with pretty high action and have a lot of saddle, so it was very easy to address. It's very good now. Seems like a good dealer would be able to assist with setup issues, if there are any. Good Luck....

[Carbonius]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the replies. I certainly need a 14 fret cut-away to do what I do. With my Taylor I get up there just enough. Not so with normal Dreads or slight cut-aways. I was looking at the WS shape.

Yeah jdinco, I am an intonation nut too. That's what has kept me with my Taylor for so long. It isn't perfect, but it is very good. I once went as far as to have an older acoustic fitted with the Buzz Feiten system. Waste of money. It made things better, but not PERFECT as advertised. I should have used all that money towards a new guitar. Oh well, expensive lesson learned. First thing I noticed when playing the "Feitenized" guitar was that the D string was still off. The tech kept arguing with me until he finally put a tuner on it. Yup, off by 4 cents. He shelfed the nut a little more and it was reasonable at that point.

I have no choice but to order a Rainsong and risk the cost of shipping both ways if I don't like it. There's is no way for me to try the WS shape in person. In Canada, I'm looking at $200 for shipping a guitar round trip. That's a lot of money just to try something. If I like it, no big deal. I'm almost there, still doing research.

[Earl49]

You might just have to take a leap of faith here and try a Rainsong. But with tempered tuning, no instrument is perfectly intonated all over the neck. Cannot happen mathematically.

I can hear intonation issues, but I'm not quite blessed / cursed with an ear like yours. Good luck in your quest, Carbonius.

[121]

If intonation is an issue, have you considered going fretless ?

http://fretless-guitar.com/

Not sure if Rainsong would offer a fretless guitar, but Emerald may.

[SpruceTop]

RainSong intonation is as good as any quality guitar and a 'Song holds its tuning better than any wooden guitar over temperature and humidity fluctuations. Empirically, my tuner says a RainSong's intonation is very good.

I've never noticed any tonal dead spots on a RainSong, or really on any of my wooden guitars but, at 66 years of age, my ears aren't what they were when I was 10.

For what you've indicated you need the guitar for, I second your thoughts on acquiring a RainSong WS1000N2. I recommend the Classic version for its beautiful crystalline tone that extends into the upper frequencies.

FACT: RainSong guitars, especially the all-carbon-fiber topped models, are VERY SENSITIVE to pressure from the forearm of the picking-hand on their thin, lightweight tops. If you don't contact the top or only contact the very edge, no problem. If you do engage the top with a portion of your forearm, you may want to add a John Pearse *armrest. Then again, arm-pressure on the top may not bother you and can be used as an effect.

MYTH: RainSong and other carbon guitars have not been known to cause cancer in long-time players.

*It would be nice if RainSong either incorporated a carbon-fiber armrest, similar to a John Pearse, into the guitar build, or offered one as stick-on, add-on.

[ukejon]

No discernible dead spots on my OM1001N2 cutaway. Very well balanced, clear tones across the entire fretboard. And like you I play up high and the intonation is spot on.

Also, I sent you a PM about a Rainsong guitar.

[Doubleneck]

I personally think Rainsong will come through for you. It is probably your best bet, I have had several and the consistency and sound up the neck is probably as good as it gets. I think it's their strongest advantage to be honest. I have had dead spots on wood guitars never on a Rainsong.

[Carbonius]

Originally Posted by 121

If intonation is an issue, have you considered going fretless ?

http://fretless-guitar.com/

Not sure if Rainsong would offer a fretless guitar, but Emerald may.

I does solve the intonation problem, but it creates to many more for me! It is very hard to chord cleanly on a fretless. I think it is more of a lead players realm.

I once bought a top of the line Yamaha 5 string fretless bass. I played it for months but found chording far to difficult. Fellows like Jaco Pastorius & Michael Manring have done shocking things on fretless, but that just wasn't going to be me. I ended taking advice from Sheldon Dingwall and had Mandolin frets put on it like Leland Sklar has on his Dingwall basses. You get some of the woody fretless tone, but with none of the hassle.

[Carbonius]

Thanks everyone, glad to get a clear consensus! I know I have to live with some mild intonation issues, but I was hoping I didn't also have to have dead spot issues. Your replies help to put that to rest. I certainly like that once I get a Rainsong set up to my liking, that it will stay there!

[Carbonius]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

*It would be nice if RainSong either incorporated a carbon-fiber armrest, similar to a John Pearse, into the guitar build, or offered one as stick-on, add-on.

Thanks for your reply and I agree. With the molds it should be easy. Although getting new molds is very expensive I believe. Emerald puts an arm bevel on many of their guitars. I didn't know about Rainsong tops being so sensitive. I will go try out the local Dread and just see how it works for me in that regard. I do incorporate palm muting and frankly, I don't know where my forearm is when I do that!

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

RainSong intonation is as good as any quality guitar and a 'Song holds its tuning better than any wooden guitar over temperature and humidity fluctuations. Empirically, my tuner says a RainSong's intonation is very good.

I've never noticed any tonal dead spots on a RainSong, or really on any of my wooden guitars but, at 66 years of age, my ears aren't what they were when I was 10.

For what you've indicated you need the guitar for, I second your thoughts on acquiring a RainSong WS1000N2. I recommend the Classic version for its beautiful crystalline tone that extends into the upper frequencies.

FACT: RainSong guitars, especially the all-carbon-fiber topped models, are VERY SENSITIVE to pressure from the forearm of the picking-hand on their thin, lightweight tops. If you don't contact the top or only contact the very edge, no problem. If you do engage the top with a portion of your forearm, you may want to add a John Pearse *armrest. Then again, arm-pressure on the top may not bother you and can be used as an effect.

MYTH: RainSong and other carbon guitars have not been known to cause cancer in long-time players.

*It would be nice if RainSong either incorporated a carbon-fiber armrest, similar to a John Pearse, into the guitar build, or offered one as stick-on, add-on.

Originally Posted by ukejon

No discernible dead spots on my OM1001N2 cutaway. Very well balanced, clear tones across the entire fretboard. And like you I play up high and the intonation is spot on.

Also, I sent you a PM about a Rainsong guitar.

These posts pretty much sum up my experience with Rainsong guitars, which is extensive, by the way.