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#31
04-20-2014, 02:37 PM
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Correct in that no one would give a rat's butt if the headstock said Wang Se Tung, but that is the entire reason for the video & the thread. You'd have probably never posted a video of some idiot comparing his cheap Yamaha to a cheap Wang Se Tung, now would you? And I cannot believe you are comparing the minor personal infractions you mention to a government sanctioned international fraud on a significant level. If I said what I REALLY think, I'd be chided for being un-nice, but suffice it to say sometimes people post something so blatantly & offensively inaccurate that it cannot stand unchallenged. What I quoted above is an excellent example. Posting the video is one thing. Essentially defending the making & marketing of the guitar is quite another. Have a nice day. 
Last edited by kydave; 04-20-2014 at 02:43 PM. |
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#32
04-20-2014, 02:47 PM
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This is from the interior of that guitar.
In ANY civilized, law respecting country, this would be actionable fraud & trademark infringement.  
Last edited by kydave; 04-20-2014 at 02:54 PM. |
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#33
04-20-2014, 02:50 PM
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What's funny is he didn't consider that the strings are counterfeit, too. I recall D'Addario was having a problem with someone selling knock-off strings under their name. Be a great match for the guitar.
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#34
04-20-2014, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
It's not fascism. It's an agreement you made when you chose to join the forum and post here. http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/faq.php
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侘 寂 -- wabi-sabi -- acceptance of transience and imperfection by finding beauty in that which is imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete Last edited by M19; 04-20-2014 at 06:06 PM. Reason: Moderation discussion in quote. |
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#35
04-20-2014, 03:00 PM
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Looking at the images I posted above;
Assume someone buys the guitar knowing what it is; Assume they're in a small town - Podunk; Assume they trade it and the guitar goes through some hands and ends up somewhere along the line with someone ignorant and/or unscrupulous enough to sell it as a real Martin. "Hey! It says Martin, says "made in the U.S.A.", has the fancy Martin logo branded into both the neck block & the back strip. Gotta be real!" They WILL get into the U.S. marketplace and someone WILL be defrauded. |
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#36
04-20-2014, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
"In addition to what's listed above, please do not post messages or images that...may be in violation of any local, state, federal or international laws." It doesn't really matter what I say though. Ultimately the Mods will determine what is OK to have here. I'm just trying to share with you that there are rules that are expected to be followed while participating here.
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侘 寂 -- wabi-sabi -- acceptance of transience and imperfection by finding beauty in that which is imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete |
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#37
04-20-2014, 03:07 PM
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These threads never turn out well. Very few instruments out there are not copies of something else. I don't have a problem with building a better mousetrap. When you put someone elses name on it and try to pass it off as as something it's not, I think that is dead wrong. At that point it becomes a fake. Just my 2 cents.
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#38
04-20-2014, 03:21 PM
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That's correct... these threads about the fake Chinese Martins never do turn out well. It's understandable when fraud and trademark infringement are clearly at issue here. Guitar players who value and respect the Martin name react with anger and hostility over this issue.
I closed this thread a while ago and then was met with a fair amount of complaints about it. So I am re-opening the thread and placing it in OPEN MIC. However, if this turns into personal attacks against each other, I will close it again. Thanks, Glenn
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My You Tube Channel Last edited by Glennwillow; 04-20-2014 at 05:27 PM. |
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#39
04-20-2014, 05:54 PM
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When I saw this thread I took exception to the promotion of illegally represented counterfeit guitars. I could care less that it was a Martin, in fact I will never own a Martin for reasons that are my own. As for the quality of the presenter in the video, again I could care less there are hours of bad video on you tube.
Chris Martin came out in an Acoustic Guitar Magazine article about counterfeit guitars from China and was criticized on this forum for it, I supported him then and I support him now. I thank the mods for reopening the thread as I think it is important to discuss this. 
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A couple of Halcyons and a Canadian made Larrivee "Wish I had more time to hear your reasons, but I have to go get a beer." 00-28 
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#40
04-20-2014, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
for being a straight-up guy, Glenn... 
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#41
04-20-2014, 06:29 PM
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Well done on your decision to re open this thread Glenn. I'm all for free speech.
However, what is there left to say on this subject ? Does anyone here want to support these blatant knock-offs ? I will say that the vid that began all this is one of the most tedious things I've ever almost watched all of ... Leave YouTube for cats and kids doing cute stuff, or people falling on their backsides. Anything but that boring, ignorant, ... Last edited by Glennwillow; 04-20-2014 at 07:18 PM. Reason: slight language edit |
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#42
04-20-2014, 06:29 PM
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First of all - thanks to the mods for reopening this thread for discussion.
Secondly - my 0.00002 cents worth... I am of the opinion that: I don't really mind other manufacturers making replica copies of famous guitars. Having owned a real Les Paul and seen/played a replica Les Paul, the quality difference is immediately apparent so someone who has experience in the area. The 'replica' LP I played was incidentally owned by a high school student friend of my son's, who saved up from odd jobs to buy it. It took him a year of saving to buy the replica, whereas the real one would have taken him about 10 years of saving. I for one am glad that he managed to get himself a guitar that he loves relatively quickly that will make him continue playing and making music, rather than get discouraged after 2 or 3 years of scraping and not having anything to show for it, giving up and spending the cash on something else. What I DO mind though, is the replica manufacturers putting actual company trademarks and 'Made in USA' on the guitars. Those are outright lies and disrespect for a brand. Even disguising 'Gibson' as 'Gibsun' is borderline misleading and unethical. If they want to make a cheap replica, so be it, but at least put their OWN name on the headstock and label. Are they not proud of their own work to want to tell the world that THEY, and not Gibson etc. made it?
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#43
04-21-2014, 10:23 AM
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the horse is dead...
i truly think you all have made the point that counterfeits are bad. i agree. i do not agree with stemming the flow of information because of the perception that you will convince more people to join the dark side, as it were.
perhaps if there really is a concern that a majority of people will decide to buy this guitar because of this thread, then perhaps the best thing to do is to discuss how to discern a knockoff from the genuine article, so the fence-sitters among the counterfeit guitar market can be informed enough to at least make a semi-intelligent decision. and really, when you're dealing in hypotheticals, that's all you can do. you can deride the sharing of information because of a theorized hypothetical outcome, or you can try and circumvent possible negative outcomes by sharing yet more information. the constant generation and regeneration of international law and intellectual property related rhetoric has done little to change anything. with real information about what to look for the anonymous yamaha playing youtubers among us might actually be able to parrot what they read on an informed internet forum about how this isn't a real martin even though they've never played one. |
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#44
04-21-2014, 10:28 AM
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Call Me Scared Dan
I hate to sound so ignorant, but I had no idea this "Problem" existed in the guitar world. Me and my motorcycle brethren have suffered for years as a result of this problem. Cheap Chinese-made knock-off parts were/are being sold as "OEM", and many of these are being stocked by dealerships! Complete with authentic-looking logo, trademarks, packaging, etc. the distributors buy in bulk thru a middleman, thinking they are getting a great deal. Only a true expert can spot the fakes. I am saving my pennies to buy a new Taylor 814ce, but now I'm scared. If they can fake a Martin, they can fake anything. What's your advice? Am I just overreacting? Should I order straight from the factory only?
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#45
04-21-2014, 10:42 AM
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 (Seriously, back in the '70s when there were some fake Asian "Marten" & "Gibsun" & "Gild" guitars floating around, nobody was faking Yamahas... When Tak did their fabled [non] "lawsuit" models, they just copied the Big Three older manufacturers. I don't think anyone is going to counterfeit Taylors, but I've been wrong before.) |
