Any experienced teachers here? I'm seeking advice on how to help a beginning student

[cagewithakay]

So I've been teaching guitar for two years now, and through trial and error of developed my skills as a teacher in doing my best to help students progress.

Well since January I've been trying to teach an 11 year old girl how to play and progress has been near non-existent. She struggles to put pressure on the frets to make a note and complains about her fingers hurting. The strings she has on there are "silk and steel" which should be easier on the fingers starting out. Another key issue she struggles with is if her left hand is fretting a note on the A string she'll pick the D string; she struggles with her hand coordination.

Along with these technical challenges, she is really shy and will often sigh or shrug and seem uninterested in learning. Now I don't know if that's because she's frustrated that it's not coming easily or if she really doesn't want to learn.

Before I cancel lessons with her, is there anything I can try to improve her coordination, as well as just get her motivated and inspired to play? I've never had to end lessons with a student before on my end so this is new territory for me.

[mr. beaumont]

Have you done much in the way of single note melodies?

Or just holding a simple chord, like a one finger G, and working on rhythm.

Kids need to see success to stay interested. Good luck, I've had these cases, and I feel bad for the kid...I just want to tell them "THIS IS THE MOST FUN THING IN THE WORLD!" But I know they need to find it for themselves.

Maybe a "Zen" approach...just playing one or two noyes and concentrating on making a beautiful sound?

[terahertz]

Is her guitar properly setup? If the action is too high, it will be difficult to play. Perhaps can start her with G key doing G, Em7, Cadd9 and D4. These chords are good for beginners.

[Clallam]

I'm not an guitar teacher but I'm going to jump in because I was a kid in that position and I teach other subjects.

It sounds as if it is time for a private chat with the parents.

You also need to have a chat with her. Next time she sighs/shrugs ask her what is going on. The only way you are going to find out what is going on in her thoughts is to ask. Hopefully you have built a good enough relationship that she will be honest with you. Don't be judgemental about any answer you get. You want to keep the conversation going not shut it down or make her afraid to be truthful with you.

Is she practicing at home? If she isn't motivated, she probably isn't practicing. That would mean she has not built up enough callous. Then her fingers would hurt during lessons. That would also explain the lack of coordination. Or the explanation may be the opposite. She may be naturally uncoordinated. In that case the lack of coordination would lead to a lack of success which would lead to difficulty staying motivated. That would then lead to not practicing enough. Either makes for a nasty feedback cycle.

How does she normally do with challenges? Push through, give up, or is this her first big challenge? If it is her first big challenge, then you are not just teaching an instrument, you are part of learning how to handle all the challenges that come with being alive.

Another thing to find out is why she is taking lessons. Is it her idea or are her parents pushing her to do something she's not interested in? Ask her and her parents seperately and compare the answers.

It's hard to be motivated to do something that hurts and you are not successful at. If the shyness is due to a lack of self-confidence it is worse.

What kind of music does she like? Can you find a simple (a small number of easy chords with a long time between chord changes) song that she likes? If she can't play individual strings without a lot of frustration, try a strum and sing (it may have to be you singing not her) or strum along with a recording approach. If you strum along with the recording pick a slow song and use a slow-down program to take a small (unnoticable) amount of speed off it. Use simple strums (one strum per bar then two strums per bar then four strums per bar) while the chord changes develop. Don't do anything hard with the right hand until the left hand is working. Thinking about what to do with two hands at once can be one hand too many. Get her making music while she learns. Making songs happen is fun, exercises you can't quite do are not fun.

Try to do something that will keep her love of music intact. That may mean stopping the lessons, at least for now. I speak from experience here. I was that uncoordinated kid that couldn't play. I also had motivation problems. I learned in a school program. I wanted to play violin and they ran out of them when they issued instruments so I was told I was going to learn viola. I wasn't interested. I stuck it out for a few years, struggled with my lack of coordination, didn't practice much, realized that I just wasn't getting it and quit. I still listened to a lot of music and did a lot of singing. Life would not have been as much fun if I had learned to hate music. I'm learning guitar now nearly 40 years later. As an adult I have a better understanding of how to push through difficulties. I also understand the benifits of practice and don't expect to be good right away. As a long time teacher in another field I also have a lot of knowledge of how people learn. My progress has been slow but I'm gettig better. I did not have this perspective as a child, which is probably why I'm successful now when I wasn't then.

If you do end up stopping the lessons, find a way to do it that does not destroy her self-confidence. You don't want to give a shy kid the message that they are too awful for you to want to spend time with. Her parents may (or may not) be of help here. It depends on the family dynamics and also if it is their idea for her to be there. It's your decision to make but be guided by her wishes here.

[campy]

See if her parents want it more than she does.

[Parlorman]

I agree with others who've questioned her motivation. If she's not interest or getting pushed into lessons she could be passively resisting.

With younger kids I sometimes tune the guitar to drop D so they can make pleasant sounding music immediately. It also lowers string tension so fretting is easier.

Lastly, if I can influence the guitar purchase, I steer them toward a quality small guitar like the Little Martin. They need to be able hold the guitar comfortably.

[dmcowles@comcas]

I have come to realize that there are some people, young and old, who just don't "have" music. Perhaps overly simplistic, but if you can't hear melodies in your head, don't expect to make your hands play them. Learning an instrument requires several things, among them are: desire; innate affinity, and; practice. Absent any one of those things, a student will not progress.

[capefisherman]

I've been teaching guitar privately for over 40 years, lost count of the number of students and I agree with much of what's said here. I no longer accept students under the age of ten because the success rate in terms of playing much beyond single note phrases and the most simple of songs is often disappointing to all concerned (the student, parents, and myself). Even the age of 11 or 12 may be pushing things. It is essential to make it a relaxed experience but explain from the get-go that practice is absolutely essential, and this must be understood by both the student AND the parents. In defense of the kid, remember that unless they have studied some other instrument the only learning experience they have is in school where the knowledge is conveyed on mostly mental rather than physical level. Learning the guitar involves both of course, and trying to make a child understand that they must even put up with pain to succeed is tough regardless of their enthusiasm or desire. I have a speech I give to the parents before the lessons with a child begin in which I require them to explain that the child will experience finger pain and that he or she absolutely MUST keep a regular practice schedule. If they have that talk with their kid and things are still a go, we give it a try.

But ultimately even in best of initial circumstances it's a crap shoot. I've had kids who struggled for a period of time but then had breakthroughs and did great. I've had kids who sincerely wanted to do it but were overwhelmed with other things like too many scheduled activities or lots of homework. The most frustrating thing are parents who coddle and make excuses for their child's lack of practice - the danger there is that the teacher may get blamed for a kid's failure and the teacher's reputation takes a hit.

In the worst case scenario, when (only very rarely, thank goodness!) I have to tell a parent it's just not working I always frame that conversation with something along the lines of: It's just not the time, don't worry, your child may very well come back to it in a year or so, and it's best to not make it a pressure or stressful experience.

I say basically the same thing to the child too, at his or her last lesson.

And more than a few times, a year or so down the line, the kid DOES start again and does much better.

[amyFB]

Originally Posted by campy

See if her parents want it more than she does.

This was my first reaction to the OP.

good luck and let us know how it works out.

[The Bard Rocks]

How about tuning the guitar a step lower, which will reduce tension and be easier on her fingers? Or, going further, try an alternate open tuning and give her a slide until she gets her right hand moving.

[Steve DeRosa]

+1 what Clallam said - to which I'll add one of my own experiences:

When I was teaching at a neighborhood music school back in my college days (early-70's), there was a young man about the same age as the OP's student, who had similar issues with lack of progress; we would often repeat the same material for several weeks in a row, until one day he came to me with a beat-up old guitar that he had fixed up in his father's garage workshop (Dad was a carpenter/furniture maker) and asked me what I thought of his work. Truth be told it wasn't bad for a sixth-grader - neck joint was tightly reset (could've had a better angle, but hey), bridge was properly reglued, action was a bit high but with a saddle filing and lighter strings would've been quite useable; needless to say I complimented him on his efforts, and we spent the rest of the lesson discussing the fine points of construction and repair. By the time we parted ways about a year later he had come to me with no fewer than eight guitars that he had repaired (his dad used to buy them at the local mom-&-pop shops - they were plentiful then - for $5-10 each), each one markedly better than the last...

He's probably a tech (in his mid/late-50's) somewhere today...

[musicman1951]

Students learn at their own pace, but someone who is complaining about fingers still hurting and showing little progress sure sounds like someone who's not practicing enough (or much at all).

An 11 year old girl can have pretty small hands. Would her parents purchase a 3/4 sized classical guitar? Would she practice it? Would tuning down a full step help? Does her guitar need a set-up.

You always try everything you can think of, put ultimately there is nothing that replaces time practicing. There is a hump that everyone gets over at the beginning of the process - unless they are defeated by the hump and never put in enough time to make progress. Once you make some real progress it builds on itself, but you can't practice for them. They have to assume that responsibility.

[Wengr]

As to the pain factor. An electric guitar, set up low for 8's would be helpful, but the parents may not be willing to go for that. So, downtune, capo, and take the action down. Remember that what the guitar sounds like is of least concern at this point.

As to the issue of picking the wrong string after two years - this seems an indicator of someone who only touches the guitar while sitting with you. If this is the case, then I'm afraid there is little you can do.
If on the other hand, there is desire, and it is really an issue of coordination, then I would suggest - start from the beginning by taking all but one string off the guitar. Teach her to play happy birthday or some such well known to her melody on the one string. If she practices and improves, but one more string on at a time. For example, if you left the G string on and it goes well, then add her D string. If problems persist with the two strings, you have the option of moving the D string to the A slot temporarily in order to make some space between. Eventually work your way back to the full set.

[SFCRetired]

I agree with trying an electric guitar. And if it is a pain issue then I would concentrate on exercises that only address toughening up her fingers before I proceeded in trying to teach playing. After a month you will know if she is actually trying. Teach her scales and in doing so her fingers will toughen up.

My wife took piano lessons as a child but hated it because she was not into learning the piano, but her momma sure was interested in her learning. As a result my wife can't play a lick on the piano.

No I am not a teacher but I have tons of experience in training and I am self taught on the guitar and I kinda know after 30 years what it takes in the beginning. It takes desire and it takes finger strengthening and callouses.

[frances50]

From strictly a student's perspective, I would have never made it if I had started on an acoustic guitar, probably even a classical guitar with nylon strings. As a 58 year old woman, I just didn't have the strength in my fingers to handle even extra light strings on an acoustic. I spent about three months on my Fender Strat then I went to my J-45 with ultra light gauge strings. And even then, playing the J-45 was a chore. I still have trouble doing 6-string barre chords on an acoustic after four years of lessons. I can only imagine an 11 year old girl's fingers. You have to enjoy what you're doing and playing at any age. If you can determine if the student has any musical interest, then I'd recommend an electric to the parents.

I'm challenged now because my new Taylor 916 has medium gauge strings. I like the challenge but it's not my only guitar either.