Another setup testimonial

[SprintBob]

I just recently got back three Taylor guitars that I have owned for 4 months, 8 months, and 14 months that in that time period have become keepers (K-22ce, 714ce, and 562ce) Taylor does a pretty good job on guitars leaving the factory with a decent setup but I’ve always found the 1st fret action is too high for my playing. It makes sense that Taylor sets the nut action high so you can set it up to what you like. But I wonder how many players look at that detail.

My luthier not only got the nuts set up properly, he also made slight adjustments to the saddles and necks and I’m just blown away by the improvements. My mantra is now to have every guitar I own sent to Phil for a setup. Phil also did my Robinson dread, my Collings OM1A, and a Pono 0020 that I just recently let go.

I read lots of posts about folks not bonding with a guitar they thought they would love and it sure makes me wonder if a good setup and the patience to try different strings would have changed their viewpoint.

Bottom line - don’t underestimate the value of a proper setup defined by your needs and style of playing.

[Rev Roy]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

I just recently got back three Taylor guitars that I have owned for 4 months, 8 months, and 14 months that in that time period have become keepers (K-22ce, 714ce, and 562ce) Taylor does a pretty good job on guitars leaving the factory with a decent setup but I’ve always found the 1st fret action is too high for my playing. It makes sense that Taylor sets the nut action high so you can set it up to what you like. But I wonder how many players look at that detail.

My luthier not only got the nuts set up properly, he also made slight adjustments to the saddles and necks and I’m just blown away by the improvements. My mantra is now to have every guitar I own sent to Phil for a setup. Phil also did my Robinson dread, my Collings OM1A, and a Pono 0020 that I just recently let go.

I read lots of posts about folks not bonding with a guitar they thought they would love and it sure makes me wonder if a good setup and the patience to try different strings would have changed their viewpoint.

Bottom line - don’t underestimate the value of a proper setup defined by your needs and style of playing.

Absolutely agree. Fortunately I have a great tech too and he gets ALL of my new guitars within days to do his magic on. Usually cost me about $30. Peanuts compared to the thousands of dollars the guitars cost.

[Jim in TC]

Originally Posted by Rev Roy

Absolutely agree. Fortunately I have a great tech too and he gets ALL of my new guitars within days to do his magic on. Usually cost me about $30. Peanuts compared to the thousands of dollars the guitars cost.

What these guys said, for sure! I had no idea for my first 40 or so years of guitar ownership how much improvement a $30 setup could offer.

Originally Posted by SprintBob

I just recently got back three Taylor guitars that I have owned for 4 months, 8 months, and 14 months that in that time period have become keepers (K-22ce, 714ce, and 562ce) Taylor does a pretty good job on guitars leaving the factory with a decent setup but I’ve always found the 1st fret action is too high for my playing. It makes sense that Taylor sets the nut action high so you can set it up to what you like. But I wonder how many players look at that detail.

It actually makes no sense at all, except that it is easier for the manufacturer. (And I'm not Taylor bashing. Most manufacturers do the same.) The action at the nut should be the same as when a capo is applied, meaning the slots should be fret height or no more than 0.002" higher. For comparison, I've found them as much as 0.015" higher and more on some pretty expensive guitars.

If the nut slots needed to be higher, then a capo would never work, nor would fretting any string. There's no practical reason for the nut slots to be above fret height, and if there are exceptions due to playing style they are so rare as to be irrelevant for this discussion.

Martin used to be a prime offender in this regard, but they've gotten much better since bringing the PLEK to all Nazareth production. Their out of the box setup is much better now. The best modern factory setups I've seen from them was on the early Authentics setup by the Repair Shop folks, all by very experienced hands.

All that to say I'm not surprised by your experience and wholeheartedly agree that nearly any factory guitar will benefit from relatively inexpensive setup work, especially the nut slots.

[TBman]

I wish I knew of a good luthier near me. I'm not taking them to a box store.

[TheJackal]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

My luthier not only got the nuts set up properly, he also made slight adjustments to the saddles and necks and I’m just blown away by the improvements. My mantra is now to have every guitar I own sent to Phil for a setup. Phil also did my Robinson dread, my Collings OM1A, and a Pono 0020 that I just recently let go.

I read lots of posts about folks not bonding with a guitar they thought they would love and it sure makes me wonder if a good setup and the patience to try different strings would have changed their viewpoint.

Bottom line - don’t underestimate the value of a proper setup defined by your needs and style of playing.

I'm located in Louisiana. Sounds like I may need to visit with Phil. Where is he located? Thanks.

[N+1]

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

It actually makes no sense at all, except that it is easier for the manufacturer. (And I'm not Taylor bashing. Most manufacturers do the same.) The action at the nut should be the same as when a capo is applied, meaning the slots should be fret height or no more than 0.002" higher. For comparison, I've found them as much as 0.015" higher and more on some pretty expensive guitars.

If the nut slots needed to be higher, then a capo would never work, nor would fretting any string. There's no practical reason for the nut slots to be above fret height, and if there are exceptions due to playing style they are so rare as to be irrelevant for this discussion.

There was a time when I never thought about this, but the capo argument is conclusive. Someone here (it may have been you?) once quoted 'official' Taylor specs for first fret clearance, and since I don't know their origin I can't vouch for them - but they do, broadly, agree with the measurements I've made on all my Taylors' factory settings. These are all thousandths of an inch:

E----- A------D-----G------B-----E
25----22----22----22----20----19

I need no further convincing of what you say. A proper nut action set up would bring those down a long way with absolutely no risk of buzz, and would change the 'feel' of the guitar considerably. (Of course you can achieve the same sort of 'feel' by putting a capo at fret 1.)

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

I just recently got back three Taylor guitars that I have owned for 4 months, 8 months, and 14 months that in that time period have become keepers (K-22ce, 714ce, and 562ce) Taylor does a pretty good job on guitars leaving the factory with a decent setup but I’ve always found the 1st fret action is too high for my playing. It makes sense that Taylor sets the nut action high so you can set it up to what you like. But I wonder how many players look at that detail.

My luthier not only got the nuts set up properly, he also made slight adjustments to the saddles and necks and I’m just blown away by the improvements. My mantra is now to have every guitar I own sent to Phil for a setup. Phil also did my Robinson dread, my Collings OM1A, and a Pono 0020 that I just recently let go.

I read lots of posts about folks not bonding with a guitar they thought they would love and it sure makes me wonder if a good setup and the patience to try different strings would have changed their viewpoint.

Bottom line - don’t underestimate the value of a proper setup defined by your needs and style of playing.

Not to bash Taylor, but a GS Mini I purchased a while ago had killer painfull action at the first fret, even though the neck was perfectly straight and had what looked like low action up the fretboard. There should be a sticky reminder to all newbies that it’s important to know a luthier who knows how to *properly adjust nut slots* before considering *any* new guitar purchase.

[Athens]

It's been discussed before, manufacturers typically set up high so you can take things down to suit your playing style.

If they start out too low we'd complain about having to replace nuts and saddles out of the box.

[Hologram T60]

I use Phil also have for 22 years. He is located in Covington LA and he is amazing at set up, repair and building check out Anita Springs Guitar website

[N+1]

Originally Posted by Athens

It's been discussed before, manufacturers typically set up high so you can take things down to suit your playing style.

We're not talking here about 12th fret action, which indeed is often set high for the purpose you state, but the action at the first fret, as governed by the nut slots. And what Todd Yates says above is a conclusive argument. No ordinary player needs nut action as high as it normally is, out of the factory. This quote of his clinches it:

"If the nut slots needed to be higher, then a capo would never work, nor would fretting any string. There's no practical reason for the nut slots to be above fret height, and if there are exceptions due to playing style they are so rare as to be irrelevant for this discussion."

[tippy5]

Yes the high- and v shaped - nut slots. Luthiers/techs please buy a set of Japanese, or equivalent files?

You don't know what you're missing until they're gone. In my town the top 2 luthiers are now closed up shop. It was a wonderful 20 or 30 years of perfect setups with great tools. Guitars that rang and stayed in tune.
Now the few remaining are either temperamental or inexperienced with cheap tools. Plus the price has doubled. $80 for a basic setup that a good guitar usually needs only 15 minutes to do.

Glad you got your Taylor's in perfect flow.

[JSDenvir]

Had the pleasure of studying how to do a proper setup with Dave Collins and Hesh Breakstone of Ann Arbor Guitars. And the points made here are exactly correct.

Assuming the fretboard and fret planes are good, it’s all about the nut. Get that under control, and the saddle is easy.

Dave’s personal guitar guitar is 3/64” at the 12th fret. Now you’re not gonna be flat picking Whiskey Before Breakfast any time soon with that kind of setup, but it speaks to what someone who really knows what he’s doing can do.

Steve

[pjroberts]

I agree proper nut slot cut is kind of a no brainer, yet most manufacturers do not get this. Most sellers do not either, I’ve had to twist arms to get action on first fret reaonsbable. Especially for online purchase. “Oh but if we cut it too low and you don’t like it, there is a no return policy.” Like the ridiculous strap pin thing (why strap pins are not normal factory feature is beyond me — even if you don’t like it, don’t use it). And then Taylor is really bad about this given their stelllar factory set up rep. I’ve owned 4 or 5 factory new Taylors and all but one have needed but work.

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by N+1

There was a time when I never thought about this, but the capo argument is conclusive. Someone here (it may have been you?) once quoted 'official' Taylor specs for first fret clearance, and since I don't know their origin I can't vouch for them - but they do, broadly, agree with the measurements I've made on all my Taylors' factory settings. These are all thousandths of an inch:

E----- A------D-----G------B-----E
25----22----22----22----20----19

I need no further convincing of what you say. A proper nut action set up would bring those down a long way with absolutely no risk of buzz, and would change the 'feel' of the guitar considerably. (Of course you can achieve the same sort of 'feel' by putting a capo at fret 1.)

The measurements you highlight above are very close to what I had on all three guitars and are now 40-50 percent lower and even. For my playing style it is a huge improvement. The luthier is Phil Patterson with Manuel and Patterson Guitars aka Abita Springs Guitar Company. Phil and his partner Joe Emmanuel have a studio in downtown Covington and their shop is in Folsom, LA.