How much is inherent ability?

[RustyAxe]

I think anyone who can play guitar successfully (that's a loaded word, I guess) has innate musical ability. But innate ability takes one nowhere, without practice to develop it. Unfortunately, there seems to be a faction who believe that anyone can be taught to be a musician. While I agree anyone can learn the mechanics, I don't believe everyone will become musicians by virtue of knowing the nuts and bolts.

I had innate ability when I sat down to a piano at age five or six. Had I not practiced, I'd be no better than I was that day. And the ability to absorb and reapply the things learned on the piano made me innately capable of learning the guitar at age 12. Again, had I not practiced I'd still be where I was 43 years ago.

[drbluegrass]

I do not think I can add anything to this discussion that hasn't already been said. So, um, I will not add, uh, anything. Ahem. Thank you.


Tom

[jakepicks]

For me it is "seeing". I have done things in life I never set out to do and do not even believe easily how something came along,then a teacher of it,then the dedication on my part to learn the pieces untill I saw the whole idea or the point. To move from apprentice to a more skilled level took a desire to and constant working with it,to get to it. Once I could see the picture,I reralized there is no such place as "it". Instead,there is boundless ness. I pick a spot along the way and stay awhile. I love acoustic guitar and singing stories. Never discovered an innate thing about me!

[Great Pretender]

“Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.”

I don't remember where I found that quote but it convinced me I could learn to play the guitar, and do a lot of other things. I think it was Calvin Cooledge. (SP?)

[justjes]

I guess I'm chiming in with the thought that it's more about what you want and are willing to work towards than about innate ability or having a knack for something. I'm 39 years old and have been playing an instrument or singing for roughly thirty years. I played saxophone from whatever age you start looking at band instruments in gradeschool until I graduated highschool. I sang in choirs and choral settings and took a semester of voice in my undergrad. I'm told I have a nice voice which makes it easier to sound good when singing, but if you'd ever heard me when I was learning to play sax, I doubt anyone would think there was much natural ability. I didn't start playing guitar until six or seven years ago, but ever since I started I've appreciated the time I spent learning about music over the years. I started playing mandolin about five years ago. The mandolin helps me stay interested and gives me something else to play

On good days, when I've had a chance to practice regularly, I can play a couple of classical pieces or some fingerstyle blues well enough to sound pretty decent. I can flatpick some fiddle/tin whistle tunes at a moderate pace, not the blistering speed I'd like but what can you do (practice more ) On the other hand, for the last 18 months I've been very busy with work and family. I'm fortunate if I get to spend an hour a week playing guitar or mandolin and it only helps me unwind, it's rarely pleasant to listen to.

My wife thinks I have a natural ability with music/math/language. While I do think those three are related, I think it's more that I've spent roughly 30 years trying to produce some sort of music and am willing to put time and effort into learning to play and sing.

[min7b5]

Originally Posted by hawgadi

Wow. That's what it takes.

Very inspirational.

That’s what works for me. Everyone if different, and working on different things... but three hours six days a week in my minimum for sure, more like five six hours a day of working on music in some way or another.

I think to playing instrumental music; jazz, classical, bluegrass... and knowing and being comfortable on a lot of tunes, at performance level, as well as working on new things, writing, arranging, etc, is VERY time consuming. Then of course there's recording, promoting, getting work...

David Grier is probably my very favorite player. I’ve seen him many times, been to a few workshops, and even was lucky enough to have a nice long last night one on one jam... He can come across as kinda tiny bit gruff sometimes to some people. It might be that he’s been asked what kind of strings he uses one too many times (he’d probably answer “the long skinny kind”)... I remember once someone asked him what they would have to do to play as well as he does, he sort of gruffly and quickly said “quit your job”. And that’s just so true. Not that you literally need to quite your day job, but it’s a little insight into the life of a master. It may seem like he rolls into town and opens up his case and out comes amazing music, but in reality he’s telling us of years and years of playing probably all day long. Which isn’t always as wonderful as it probably sounds. Getting back to the book Talent Is Overrated, the author does get into the feelings of isolation of professional musicians, artists, writers, etc.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by min7b5

That’s what works for me. Everyone if different, and working on different things... but three hours six days a week in my minimum for sure, more like five six hours a day of working on music in some way or another.

I think to playing instrumental music; jazz, classical, bluegrass... and knowing and being comfortable on a lot of tunes, at performance level, as well as working on new things, writing, arranging, etc, is VERY time consuming. Then of course there's recording, promoting, getting work...

David Grier is probably my very favorite player. I’ve seen him many times, been to a few workshops, and even was lucky enough to have a nice long last night one on one jam... He can come across as kinda tiny bit gruff sometimes to some people. It might be that he’s been asked what kind of strings he uses one too many times (he’d probably answer “the long skinny kind”)... I remember once someone asked him what they would have to do to play as well as he does, he sort of gruffly and quickly said “quit your job”. And that’s just so true. Not that you literally need to quite your day job, but it’s a little insight into the life of a master. It may seem like he rolls into town and opens up his case and out comes amazing music, but in reality he’s telling us of years and years of playing probably all day long. Which isn’t always as wonderful as it probably sounds. Getting back to the book Talent Is Overrated, the author does get into the feelings of isolation of professional musicians, artists, writers, etc.

Indeed that is what it takes when one asks a top pro how they do what they do. That life of hours a day practicing, often being away from home while traveling from city to city, making ends meet with music lessions, etc. I figured out years ago isn't one I would want, but all respect to those who have taken that path.

[fishingjld]

I have played on and off for about 9 years now. Absolutely no other feeling like sitting down and picking a little. It relieves stress and helps me to focus on the important things in life.

Now as for the subject at hand I can say that when I first started playing I did not see quick improvement. Now that I am older and started playing again I feel like almost every time I play I grow leaps and bounds. I am 28 now and it seems now that I have a family it's much easier for me to use what little talent I was graced with. I can say that I try to practice every night at least an hour. I put in a lot of time learning to play and understanding different musical theories. I am not great, probably won't ever be great. I just hope that one day after all the time I am putting into this someone will enjoy just sitting and listening.

Sorry to be so long winded folks. I have lurked here for a while now and just wanted to throw in my two cents that I think it is more time than talent. I think time plays a huge factor, not just the time you spend practicing but when you started. I can only wish now I had started playing earlier. God bless everyone and hope everyone has great holidays ahead!!

jd

[Glennwillow]

JD,

Welcome to the forum!

- Glenn

[BaylinerCapri]

Originally Posted by min7b5

That’s what works for me. Everyone if different, and working on different things... but three hours six days a week in my minimum for sure, more like five six hours a day of working on music in some way or another.

I think to playing instrumental music; jazz, classical, bluegrass... and knowing and being comfortable on a lot of tunes, at performance level, as well as working on new things, writing, arranging, etc, is VERY time consuming. Then of course there's recording, promoting, getting work...

David Grier is probably my very favorite player. I’ve seen him many times, been to a few workshops, and even was lucky enough to have a nice long last night one on one jam... He can come across as kinda tiny bit gruff sometimes to some people. It might be that he’s been asked what kind of strings he uses one too many times (he’d probably answer “the long skinny kind”)... I remember once someone asked him what they would have to do to play as well as he does, he sort of gruffly and quickly said “quit your job”. And that’s just so true. Not that you literally need to quite your day job, but it’s a little insight into the life of a master. It may seem like he rolls into town and opens up his case and out comes amazing music, but in reality he’s telling us of years and years of playing probably all day long. Which isn’t always as wonderful as it probably sounds. Getting back to the book Talent Is Overrated, the author does get into the feelings of isolation of professional musicians, artists, writers, etc.

If i got up at 500am id prob fall over on my guitar and crush it lol. Im not a morning person

[SMan]

Very few threads this long will I read every post. This was an exception as I find it interesting peoples views on this subject.

I have a brother 1 1/2 years older than me that can pick up an instrument and learn to play it fairly well within hours. Just some of the instruments has has learned include the Cello, Bass, Violin, Mandolin, guitar, Balalaika, banjo, trumpet, french horn, and of course the piano. He has arranged music for orchestras while in high school and college. He has amazing "natural" talent IMHO. Growing up I was also in orchestra, choir, and had an equal amount of music education. It has never come that easy to me despite the hours I have played and practiced. I can be entertaining to family and friends but am by no means a great guitarist and am quite critical of my playing and singing.

What has helped me as of late was some encouraging and kind comments made by some fellow AGF members who heard me play at a couple of get togethers. It has inspired me a bit more and I think my level of play has improved because of it. (At least my wife thinks so and she has listened to me for 30 years )

All of that said I don't believe I have much natural talent but have progressed "enough" over the years and am very satisfied at the level I play. Playing guitar is a great stress reliver for me and I truly enjoy playing. I rarely play in front of others so I really only have to please myself (and hopefully my lovely wife). I don't think it matters as much about the level at which you play, but rather the enjoyment you derive from it.

My $.02

[Oylerz]

Originally Posted by min7b5

I remember once someone asked him what they would have to do to play as well as he does, he sort of gruffly and quickly said “quit your job”.

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Indeed that is what it takes when one asks a top pro how they do what they do. That life of hours a day practicing, often being away from home while traveling from city to city, making ends meet with music lessions, etc. I figured out years ago isn't one I would want, but all respect to those who have taken that path.

I am reading a book right now and in it he talks about having been told "I wish I could play like you!" to which the author replied "You can. All it takes is 4 hours per day for four years."

[CoffeeGuitar]

i'm a university psychology sudent in the uk and i did a brief study on this exact issue

in a sentence what we did was give individuals access to pianos or guitars using individuals whoes parents played to a good standard peoples whoes parents didn't play and the ability of those whoes parents played to pick up a tune was far superior.

my dad could turn his hand to most instruments though never really bothered to do so he just had a bit of a knack for it which i seem to have picked up.

I gave my girlfriends clarinet a go the others month and was quite suprised that i seemed to know what i was doing!

[fishingjld]

thanks glenn

[Alexrkstr]

Someone's post reminded me of something I saw on TV of a psychologist explaining how SUCCESSFUL people (In general musician or corporate america) loved what they did so much that they "practiced it for 4 hours a day" and that that is what made them so great...