how bout the fishman matrix natural II?

woodruff · #1 04-16-2008, 08:16 AM

anyone got experience with these? the Dtar didnt work out, so i went with the matrix in my hbird. will have her back in a week or so. appreicate all the awesome feedback i recieved re my dtar wave thread, but i am going down a different direction.

thanks for the advise as usual!

by the way, my favorite guitar guy just left Taylor again to return to Tucson at Rainbow Guitatrs. He said tto expensive to live out there, he had like two jobs, and couldnt really siwng it. good to have him back. he said lots going on at taylor now with electric and the fender distribution overseas deal. he was there when they broke the news. he still doesnt own a Taylor. but he definitely owns a Goodall from when he cut his teeth working for James when he was starting out as a guitar repair tech. while at Taylor, he worked a lot on the guitars that came in to change out the 06 ES to the new ES 9 volt etc....he most likely did yours....he asked me what the reaction of the new ES is on the AGf. i told him it was very positive!

guitaniac · #2 04-16-2008, 09:18 AM

Woody,

If you're gonna go with a Fishman Matrix system, you can get this more flexible (and equally unobtrusive) system for not much more.
http://www.fishman.com/products/details.asp?id=97

Curiously, I don't even see the Natural II on the Fishman website any more. I hope you're getting a deal on what's apparently a discontinued product.
http://www.fishman.com/products/acou...ar-pickups.asp

As for the Wavelength system which "didn't work out", what was the problem?

Gary

woodruff · #3 04-16-2008, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Woody,

If you're gonna go with a Fishman Matrix system, you can get this more flexible (and equally unobtrusive) system for not much more.
http://www.fishman.com/products/details.asp?id=97

Curiously, I don't even see the Natural II on the Fishman website any more. I hope you're getting a deal on what's apparently a discontinued product.
http://www.fishman.com/products/acou...ar-pickups.asp

As for the Wavelength system which "didn't work out", what was the problem?

Gary

well, they didnt carry it so i went with what they had. call it laziness, or i didnt feel like waiting for it to be ordered. i know sometimes these rash decisions blow up, but i feel good about it. and the product is discontinued, but it lloks liek what i am after. will keep you guys posted.

thanks for the advise gary!

NateDog16 · #4 04-16-2008, 09:40 AM

I love it. It's been very reliable for me in my Martins.

trpullen · #5 04-16-2008, 09:40 AM

I think they rolled the Nat I and Nat II into the Infinity which has the preamp voicing switch to get either tonality to match your guitar.

trpullen · #6 04-16-2008, 09:41 AM

Oh...and I love my Nat II in my 810.

woodruff · #7 04-16-2008, 09:44 AM

thanks guys. i am glad the nat II has some positive reviews for dreads cause thatis what the H-bird is getting. kind o had to make a quick decision(well, didnt have to, i kind o set it up this way), but i feel this willwork out well then.

guitaniac · #8 04-16-2008, 10:44 AM

Woody,

I know what you mean about not wanting to wait. I've been waiting a week for the I/O UST that I ordered, and the dang company (pickups.com) hasn't even answered my email inquiry. Never-the-less, I'd rather be waiting now than eventually be stuck with a second-choice pickup in the guitar.

The good news is that you won't be too terribly "stuck" if the Natural II doesn't float your boat. Used Fishman products command a decent resale value on ebay. (Brand name counts for a lot on ebay, and Fishman is still the dominate name in guitar electronics.) I've sold two used Fishman Prefix systems on ebay for pretty decent prices.

Gary

woodruff · #9 04-16-2008, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Woody,

I know what you mean about not wanting to wait. I've been waiting a week for the I/O UST that I ordered, and the dang company (pickups.com) hasn't even answered my email inquiry. Never-the-less, I'd rather be waiting now than eventually be stuck with a second-choice pickup in the guitar.

The good news is that you won't be too terribly "stuck" if the Natural II doesn't float your boat. Used Fishman products command a decent resale value on ebay. (Brand name counts for a lot on ebay, and Fishman is still the dominate name in guitar electronics.) I've sold two used Fishman Prefix systems on ebay for pretty decent prices.

Gary

thanks gar, i am not too worried about it. will let you guys know how i like tht one, i should be able to pick it up tues and got rehearsal tues night. so, cross fingers....

rainsong · #10 04-16-2008, 11:32 AM

I have both a Fishman matrix II and a Fishman Matrix 1 in different guitars.
I think Fishman gets a bad rap, personally. Everybody wants to jump on the "Fishman sucks" bandwagon it seems. I host an open-mic every month and the loaner "Yamaha" has a matrix II run through a PADI and I think it is one of the better combos I have heard (and I hear a lot of them). That being said, I still prefer the sound of my Element equipped Rainsong better (and also better than it sounded with a Fishman Blender) than most anything I've heard. But, that may just that guitar. I've experimented with putting a PUTW "Quackbuster" in conjunction with my Matrix and that makes it sound even better, but it is still about 75% matrix with 25% "quackbuster". Like I said in a previous post, I would probably opt for a D-tar wavelength, Baggs Element or PUTW I/O if I ever got another guitar that needed a pickup, but I don't think the difference between the Element and Matrix is enough that I'm about to pull out my Matrix and put in an Element in my Yamaha. The nice thing about the Matrix is that is easy to add a "quackbuster" and also combines with the AURA very well since most sound images were recorded with it. I do think the Matrix is a bit more difficult to install than the Element or the D-tar because you have to solder the pickup to the preamp and I think it is sometimes more sensitive to having an uneven slot or saddle than the braided cable design of the D-tar or Element. Also, it is my experience that the matrix has a lot weaker preamp than the Element (at least the onboard version). It's not a problem if you run it through a PADI or AURA, though. I'm sure you will very happy with the Matrix and it is a good foundation to build on

guitaniac · #11 04-16-2008, 01:50 PM

In Larry Fishman's 2008 NAMM video on this page, he points out that there have been eight generations of Matrix systems.
http://www.acousticguitar.com/video/...px?issueid=967

I have to think that at least some of those systems deserved the bad raps they got, at least from the folks with a heavy strumming attack. In this video, Larry Fishman even alludes to having a headroom issue with one incarnation of the Matrix system which placed a priority on battery life. He also claims that the new Matrix Inifinity system has been altered for the better with respect to providing sufficient headroom.

Gary

franchelB · #12 04-16-2008, 04:18 PM

I don't and never had a problem with Fishman products...even the Martin Thinline 332!

As I recall, until Taylor's ES sytem came out, Taylor almost exclusively used Fishman pickups in their guitars except for the Doyle Dykes model (and it used the Baggs' Hex pickup). I doubt if Taylor complained about using Fishman pickups in their guitars...

As for Fishman getting a "bad rap", I think it's just "par for the course" when it comes to choosing guitar pickups...both for electric and acoustic/electric guitars. There are just so many options, not to mention the fact that some guys still have the "My pickup is better than yours" mentality.

guitaniac · #13 04-16-2008, 05:28 PM

Regarding Taylor's association with Fishman, when the Taylor Expression System was introduced, Bob Taylor boldy proclaimed that "the duck is dead!" and that undersaddle transducers were now obsolete technology for steel string guitars. Ironically, Taylor introduced its own undersaddle transducer system (ES-T) for the 100 and 200 series models a year or two ago. I guess the duck wasn't that dead for steel-stringers.

As for Taylor's nylon string guitars, they've stuck with Fishman systems thruout.

Getting back to the Fishman Matrix Infinity system, I forgot to mention that this new system requires no soldering with the installation. The pickup leads apparently plug into the strap-jack preamp. That's a factor which will likely make the Infinity system more popular with do-it-yourselfers and possibly harm the resale value of the older Matrix systems.

Gary

rainsong · #14 04-16-2008, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guitaniac

In Larry Fishman's 2008 NAMM video on this page, he points out that there have been eight generations of Matrix systems.
http://www.acousticguitar.com/video/...px?issueid=967

I have to think that at least some of those systems deserved the bad raps they got, at least from the folks with a heavy strumming attack. In this video, Larry Fishman even alludes to having a headroom issue with one incarnation of the Matrix system which placed a priority on battery life. He also claims that the new Matrix Inifinity system has been altered for the better with respect to providing sufficient headroom.

Gary

Great link Gary! I never heard that interview nor did I know about the many versions of the Matrix preamp. My matrix II is about 8 years old, I doubt that mine is from the period of long battery life and bad dynamics since my battery lasts about a year and the pickup sounds pretty good (thorugh a PADI). After that interview I may need to add the Infinity to my list of future pickups I would consider for another guitar!

guitaniac · #15 04-16-2008, 06:10 PM

Mike,

I have to admit that Larry's presentation of the Matrix Infinity system even makes me curious to try it. I'm still feeling snake bit, however, from the Fishman Ellipse-equipped Walden guitar which I got off ebay last year. It was a beautiful cedar/rosewood grand auditorium (model G3030CE) which had a lovely acoustic sound. Amplified, however, it was excessively quacky with aggressive strumming, no matter how I EQed or Mama-tized it. I A/B-ed it against my Wavelength-equipped Taylor, so there was no doubt that the pickup system wasn't for me.

In retrospect, I should have pulled the Ellipse system out of the Walden and put in something more suitable for an aggressive attack. I foolishly tried to leave the rig intact and salvage my investment, but only recouped 60% on the ebay resale. I shot myself in the foot by stating (right in the ebay listing) that I didn't think the pickup system was suitable for heavy strummers. Having a clean conscience (on that particular sale, at least) was much more expensive than I had imagined it would be. As it turned out, the guitar sans pickup was worth substantially more than I ended up selling the entire rig for.

Gary