Buying decision: Taylors vs. Martin w/ onboard Auras

[Joe F]

I must admit I am very intrigued by the CA GX Performer since your earlier posts about it. It's not a guitar I'd be willing to purchase sight unseen and sound unheard though. I wish there was somewhere I could get my hands on one and see what it's all about.

[leeasam]

Originally Posted by Joe F

I must admit I am very intrigued by the CA GX Performer since your earlier posts about it. It's not a guitar I'd be willing to purchase sight unseen and sound unheard though. I wish there was somewhere I could get my hands on one and see what it's all about.

LOL ya I have been a big Taylor and ES advocate for the past 4 years( well 4 years of ES advocate

You can check the website to see if any dealers in your area
http://www.compositeacoustics.com/

Maybe JR Rogers can work out a deal with ya where you might have 24 or 48 hrs to check out and return if you don`t like it. Many shops will do that and his price is good. I happen to get mine at a dealer about 100 miles from me and was the same price as JR quoted and got to try out first hand.

HWat I like about it is as Taylor designed a true neck for life CA takes it farther. Neck needs no adjustment at all. No truss rod-- will not warp- move- or change and not buzz. I strum mostly in worship and can get pretty aggressive and the GX handles it well. SO even above Taylor the neck will never change as it`s not wood. no humidity or fret movement issues. I also like the stainless frets -- will last much longer than the soft taylor frets. Also there will be no need of a neck reset as the top will not pull in over time like a wood guitar. Neck is real comfortable. the GX is the same physical size as a Taylor GA. It was a perfect fit in the case! Also with the body reliefs in the GX it is more comfortable to play sitting or standing.

Here is what I have really liked so far. When we practice early sunday morning the church can be cool as the heat has been down. well by the time worship starts the Taylor would be out of tune as the room warmed up and the wood moves. The GX stayed dead on! Also the GX uses Gotoh tuners. IMO much nicer than the Taylors and smoother.
And the plugged in tone is great so far. battery change is super easy on the Imix onboard too.

here is a clip of Jeremy camp with a COT dread( whcih is supposed to be a version of the vintage I believe)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEkh_KxKao0

this is what really caught my attention and had to try one out. Of course recording and pc speakers can be an issue.

I am going to try and get some recordings done Sunday at a friends. I recorded a couple of clips with my 814ce and am going to try ther same song so one can hear the comparison. Also I want to do a miced vs plugged comparison. We`ll see how it goes.

I never thought in a million years a guitar would sway me from my 814CE. The GX just does everthing aas well or better plus the added benifit of it ALWAYS sounds the same - plays the same no matter what the weather or location and doing worship stuff in and out of the church this just made sense.

Lee

[StevieC]

I'll put in another plug for the Aura. I've had a DC-16RGTE Aura for about 18 months now and use it for worship twice a month - sometimes in a band and sometimes solo. Coupled with an Acoustimax I've been really, really pleased with the natural warm sound. It works very well for flat picking as well as strumming without getting mushy and losing the tone of each string. Also produces a nice percussive sound when playing bar chords for certain types of songs (e.g. Blessed Be Your Name, etc.).

I tried out a few of the images, but very quickly settled on #4 and leave it there all the time. To be honest, the others didn't impress me much, but I am totally happy with #4. The EQ settings get left alone as well - roughly +4db Treble, -6db Mid, and +2db Bass, with the Blend at about 75% toward Pickup.

I can't speak for all worship settings and PA systems, but we have two different locations with VERY different PA systems (one is a portable Yamaha system), and I've been very happy with those settings above through both systems. I will say that the Acoustimax made a noticable difference, but the tone was still good before that as well.

Good luck in your decision!

[niteflyguy]

oh, the challenges of choosing an acoustic-electric guitar...

This weekend is a rare weekend for me. I'm not actually playing in the band at church, so I can just attend and listen and worship. Last night I went to the service. In the band were two acoustic players, both with 410ce's. One had the older Fishman Prefix, the other had the Expression system. A good chance to compare.

The piezo sounded...well, like a piezo. It's a respectable sound, but not inspiring. It works, and to most ears I'm sure it's fine. I've lived with that sound for 10 years with my present guitar (31ce)

Then I listened to the ES Taylor. Now the ES overall sounds more natural to me than the piezo, but it definitly has it's own sound. I've been listening to guys play ES guitars for a few years now. I asked myself "does that sound excite me? Does it inspire me?" To tell you the truth, I couldn't say a resounding "yes". It's very good, don't get me wrong. I'm just not sure I want that sound.

Earlier yesterday, I called the dealer I bought my Martin from and told I wasn't happy with the condition my "blem" guitar was in. They offered to exchange it for a brand new one, at no additional cost. This would be a smokin' deal.

So, I went home and listened some more to the Martin. It sounds fantastic, but feedback is the issue. I sometimes play acoustic with a full band, but more often use it in solo/quieter settings.

So, here's where I'm at...

This afternoon I'm doing music for a funeral, and tonight a prayer meeting, both solo acoustic. I'll use the Martin and see how it goes. I'l then need to just accept that in a loud band setting, it may be necessary to just use the UST alone, and save the "aura magic" for quieter settings.

Ok, that's the update. All this is subject to change with no prior notice!

[rmyAddison]

Nitefly,

If you love the sound, try to work with the feedback, I do not have that problem at all, but you may be playing in louder venues.

EQ is meant for cut 99% of the time, I did sound for decades, what are you settings. My Auras EQ's are pretty much flat with a slight cut to the mids, both the image and pickup (remember you can EQ both separately with the edit switch).

Another thought is I have both the Dread and OM, the OM is less prone to feedback but I really don't have a problem with each. No disrespect but if you just got the Aura you don't know all the tricks, it takes a number of sessions to get it dialed in, but then it is plug and play, I haven't changed my settings in months.

PM me if you want some setup tips.

[niteflyguy]

Ok, here's my report from yesterday.

The Aura was very easy to use. I used image #1, with EQ flat on both the image and the UST. Put the mix slider on about 70% Aura, 30% UST. Cut a touch of mids on the mixing board and...

Wow..!

The Aura system sounds amazing. Very close to a mic'd up sound. VERY close. For the first time, I could hear the wood of the guitar. No piezo dryness or quack.

Right now I think I'll just return this guitar for a new one (because of dings and flaws mentioned in an earllier post) and give the Martin/Aura a long term try. I may have to resort to a piezo sound in loud band settings, but it may be worth for the Aura sound for quieter things.

[rmyAddison]

it just takes some time.............

Good Luck!

[mikelhenry]

NiteFly:

Glad there seems to be some resolution to your problem, in a very good way with a brand new guitar.

One thing I've never mentioned in any posts about Martin Aura feedback is, unlike any other acoustic/electric guitar I have ever played, I run the volume at 50%, and let the sound guy adust the levels at the board. With the resonance of the Martin body, feedback loops could really be a problem, so I don't send as much volume back to the board. I can't say if this is why I never have an major issue with feedback, but it could be a contributing factor. Just my $0.02.

Again, I can't emphasize enough the finding sounds, adjusting eq and saving the setting before you reach the stage because there are too many variables to fool with up on the stage.

[markwayne]

You probably already know this, but if you unplug the guitar at any time during your performance you need to reset the feedback buster in the Aura. I've been bitten by that one in really loud clubs. I really wish Fishman would address this. It's silly to have to come back from a break and bring the guitar back up to feedback in front of a full house just to reset the notch filter. The only option is to leave the guitar plugged in all night long even through my electric sets.

BTW - I already have a Martin with the Aura and I'm now thinking of ordering a Taylor without electronics and installing an Aura in the Taylor to have a different flavor available live. The price on a Taylor drops pretty fast when you order a model without the electronics which (IMHO) aren't that great anyway.

Wayne

[rmyAddison]

Wayne,

You're right about the feedback control, that bit me the second gig with my Aura. The battery is supposed to last 37 hours, and I don't like making "noise" between sets, so I just leave mine plugged in, batteries have not been an issue.

Suggestion, why not just get the Taylor with a pickup and buy the floor Aura blender, usable with more than one guitar and images are downloadable? If I had to do it all over again I would have my main guitars all with USTs and share one Aura blender pedal with a few images for each guitar. Of couse, Im old and have terrible eyesight and the Aura on the guitar has it's advantages too.......

[markwayne]

Yeah, leaving it plugged has become my approach as well as I don't even like tuning audibly during a gig let alone blasting a big, old dread-sized howl in the middle of a show. I play a lot of weddings. Can you imagine how that would go over there? It just occurred to me that the Martin just uses a TRS jack to switch the battery in and I could just go in and install a little SPST switch in to keep the battery engaged even while the guitar sits unplugged. (I don't like leaving a Martin sitting out at some of the clubs we play while we play an electric set.)

The main reasons for getting the onboard Aura for the Taylor is that I rather like the new Aura with the soundhole-mounted controls (no trapdoor) and the price drops significantly when you order any Taylor without electronics. (I'm already going to have to custom order the Taylor anyway as I'm not fond of the 2 1/4" saddle spacing on the nicer Taylors.) I also plan to forgo face dots on the fingerboard.

I'm right with you on the old-eyes syndrome. I've been forced to begin wearing glasses at least at weddings as I read much of my repertoire on those dates. Computers sure don't help my eyes any.

I have my eye on a Martin 000 however, so the Taylor is not yet a done deal.

Wayne

[niteflyguy]

Just got back from a conference where I led acoustic worship with my new Martin. A few observations:

1. I like image #1 the best, at least so far. It seems to be the most natural sounding.
2. Treble and bass were flat, and I cut the mids slightly on both UST and Aura. Anything more extreme made the guitar sound unnatural. Exreme EQ seems is a bad thing on this guitar.
3. I like a 75%/25% mix favoring the Aura.

That's it for now. I'm starting to feel "at peace" with this purchase..!

[Joe F]

Originally Posted by markwayne

You probably already know this, but if you unplug the guitar at any time during your performance you need to reset the feedback buster in the Aura. I've been bitten by that one in really loud clubs. I really wish Fishman would address this. It's silly to have to come back from a break and bring the guitar back up to feedback in front of a full house just to reset the notch filter. The only option is to leave the guitar plugged in all night long even through my electric sets.

Wayne

That was the biggest cause of my problems using the OMC Aura in a church setting. I have to warm up the vocal team in another room just prior to the service starting. When the service starts, that's when I come onto the stage and plug in. In this scenario I had no opportunity to zero out any potential feedback. It was just plug in, get a thumbs up from the sound guy and hit it. In hindsight, I should have just used this issue to justify having a second guitar in the other room to use as the warmer upper!

I'm glad you are having success with it though. My old OMC Aura is one guitar I do actually regret selling.

[niteflyguy]

Well, my relationship with my Martin/Aura continues to develop..

Last night I led worship again, only this time the room and the PA were bigger. It was just me, another singer, and the Martin. This time what sounded best was:

Image #1
Balance 50/50
Aura EQ: flat
UST EQ: Bass boosted, Mids cut, Treble -flat

The sound I got was just amazing. It was HUGE. I've never heard a more massive solo acoustic gutiar sound. I loved it!

Even though the sound was fairly loud, I was pleased that there were no feedback issues. The feedback control switch was "off", and simply reversing the master phase was enough to keep things controlled.

Anyway, I'm definitly in the honeymoon stage. Can't wait for the next opportunity to use it. This weekend I'm leading worship again, but I'm playing electric gutiar

[DeadHead]

I don't think its a good idea to buy acoustic guitar with pre-installed electronics.

I like to buy them sans-pick up and put the most unobtrusive pick up in that I can find that still has good sound. (K and K pure western mini)

Then use an external DI like the Baggs model or ultrasound or even the K and K.

Then if I still own that guitar in 10 years and acoustic pick up technology has evolved and there is something new that is un-obtrusive and yields better tone that what I have in my guitar I can easily pull the old one out and put the new one in....

No big barn door holes, or ES holes, or any holes outside of maybe having to ream out the end pin hole so that it can accept the strap jack.

Something to consider. . . ..