Plastic...is it too late?

[Riverwolf]

I live in Oregon.
We go to the beach often, mostly for driftwood for carving.
The amount of small 1/16 - 1/4 plastic debris is getting really bad.
It is now all over every single beach.
Not to sound a doomsayer here, but I feel it is too late.
Too late for half measures like plastic bags in stores.
Or plastic water bottles.
Some will say that everything helps.
I disagree.
A simple trip to any store and almost every item is in some type of plastic.
Non-political thoughts anyone?

[Tunesalot]

Probly too late. Your stuff is likely coming from Asia. There is a big vacuum boat that is putting out a barrier and taking tons of plastics from a river outlet in So Cal but it is a drop in the bucket. Plenty of projects on the drawing board for the Great Pacific and Atlantic Gyres of plastics. Much of it is super tiny and in the critters already too. We all should do what we can.

[Steve-arino]

Keep the faith and realize every little thing does help.

I'm on the opposite coast on Long Island. The beaches were gross 50 years ago. Brown water, syringes, condoms, all sorts of little plastic bits.

The beaches are cleaner now than they've been in many years. We regularly see Humpback whales, dolphins, seals (they come rest on the beach sometimes). The water is clear. Much less particulate matter than I remember when I was a kid. NYC has pumped billions of $ into clean water projects and from what I see it's been pretty successful.

I still wouldn't go swimming in the East River along NYC...but it's better than it used to be.

[DCCougar]

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

A simple trip to any store and almost every item is in some type of plastic.

Yeah, but if it's not recycled, it goes into landfills, doesn't it? Not into the ocean or littered onto the beach!

[Fjord]

Originally Posted by DCCougar

Yeah, but if it's not recycled, it goes into landfills, doesn't it? Not into the ocean or littered onto the beach!

But the reality is that a significant percentage of this plastic will on its way to the landfill get diverted and feed into waterways and eventually the ocean. And when we consider the massive and growing quantities of plastics being used, even a small fraction is unsustainable. And a plastic container will begin to breakdown and turn into many smaller individual pieces.

[Mandobart]

I've read and heard from many sources (like this one) that the majority of fish, sea birds, marine mammals and reptiles are contaminated with microplastic. This causes negative health effects to these animals and the entire food chain, which is ultimately us.

IMO yes, it is far too late to turn this around.

[perttime]

Originally Posted by DCCougar

Yeah, but if it's not recycled, it goes into landfills, doesn't it? Not into the ocean or littered onto the beach!

Landfills are so last century!

In my part of the world, if it doesn't get recycled, it gets incinerated (used as energy source). Most of it does anyway...

[hubcapsc]

But the reality is that a significant percentage of this plastic will on its way to the landfill get diverted and feed into waterways and eventually the ocean.

???

It is the stuff that people don't throw in the trash and that doesn't
get hauled to the land fill that is the problem. That stuff in the ditch
that's going to end up in the creek didn't blow off the garbage truck,
some moron threw it out his window...

-Mike

[imwjl]

News in recent weeks and months has had more about the discovery of microplastics in our bodies and links to heart disease and strokes.

I don't know if it is too late and we have big reliance on petroleum just to sustain ammonia making for agriculture and pharmaceuticals to I don't think it is wrong that we take some measures to live with a smaller footprint.

Nothing scientific or more than anecdotal but in the now close to 50 years of interest and volunteering with watershed and recreation related stuff I've long wondered and worried. It came from the way coming upon a dump - someone's small one - in trail building or stream reclamation would have the plastic trash stand out.

Our independent travels vs at resorts have long shown all the plastic trash too. I used to think of what big watersheds look like down stream vs up as another point to be considerate of others. I don't have good answers but trying to live with less impact on others definitely makes some sense.

I can also say our adjustments in lifestyle with footprint or impact in mind have not been negative or bad. We eat well and I'd say even better not having so much packaged and processed foods. Our choice in 2006 to move opposite direction of many away from sprawl has been wonderful in a physical and social sense. It might not change the world but has sure been good for us.

It just has not been hard to live with always taking less to the street than our neighbors, driving less, and using less packaging. We're not extreme here either. It's in a way been more quality family time too.

[LiveMusic]

I am not optimistic. As you say, plastic is everywhere. I recycle the stupid amount of plastic that comes through my simple life but I have come across significant info that says recycling doesn't work anyway. It is certainly a burden. Drives me nuts to think it doesn't dollar up cuz the dollar rules everything.

I am in the oil biz. Go ahead and hate me, lol. But, I am an anomaly in that I also am bigtime pro-environment and pro-nature. IMO, unless we replace plastic with something else, we will never (until it runs out) wean ourselves off of oil. Transportation (fuel) is the biggest use of oil but plastic manufacturing is humongous and since it's so ubiquitous, it is crucial to the modern way of life. Regarding transportation, I am all for e-cars but I do not think that ICE vehicles are going away anytime soon. Theoretically, it MIGHT be possible, but I seriously doubt renewables will ever work out like they propose. And I want them to.

Speaking of the modern way of life, I am of the opinion that the modern way of life is the problem. Or maybe it's just part of humanity. An internal flaw to want more, more, more. Consumerism. And that the only way out is consuming less. Which, IMO, ain't gonna happen. Can you imagine a POTUS saying to everyone, "Hey, guys, we got a big problem. We are all going to have to consume less. The economy is going to tank and that's what has to happen for our survival." Nope, people think and expect ever-improving high times. A robust economy. Which means growth. Which means more, more, more plastic. And oil. Which is finite. Hard times down the way.

Our societies are built upon perpetual expansion, and the earth can't support that. We are consuming ourselves to ruin. And the planet's ruin.

Sorry for the pessimism but it's my take. And I don't mope around about it, just being real. Homo sapiens might be its own worst enemy. I wish they would throw a mountain of cash at how to clean up the place and also inventing alternatives to oil-derived plastics.

[fazool]

Originally Posted by Steve-arino

...

I'm on the opposite coast on Long Island. The beaches were gross 50 years ago. Brown water, syringes, condoms, all sorts of little plastic bits.

The beaches are cleaner now than they've been in many years. We regularly see Humpback whales, dolphins, seals (they come rest on the beach sometimes). The water is clear. Much less particulate matter than I remember when I was a kid. ....

I grew up on an island in the Niagara River, swimming and boating my whole life and actively SCUBA diving the great lakes waterways since 1980.

The water was smelly and dirty back then with terrible visibility and just blecch.

The waters are gorgeous, clean and clear now. Visibility is amazing. Flying over Lake Erie you can see the bottom.

Clean-up efforts definitely work!

[Dirk Hofman]

When we say it's "too late to turn around"...well...sure...for us. We will be eating plastic-ridden fish and dealing with this all our lives.

Doesn't have to be that way for our descendants. Changes we make now can have impact.

[SFCRetired]

Sorry, but environmentalists try to solve one problem by creating another problem. Just like the war on oil and gas WILL create other problems, some of which we have no answers for.

I have said for years our biggest problem is the amount of trash we have and the way we are forced to dispose of it. I have recycled for years what I can. But it's not possible to recycle everything, so they better find a way to dispose of it.

Yeah, call me a pessimist too, I believe we are all putting a dagger in ourselves and it cannot be reversed.

What really gets under my skin is how they politicize things while solving absolutely nothing.

[FLRon]

I believe the damage is at the point of being unfixable. Case in point, water scientists near the Gulf of Mexico where I live are doing a deep dive into the effects of harmful plastics in the ecosystem. In fact, just a couple of days ago they ran a news report that showed the water samples contained significant amounts of minute bits of plastic.
A simple walk along many of the popular beaches here will show you how many people simply leave their plastic behind, much of it taken out to sea by the tides and returned in microscopic particles.

[edcmat-l1]

Clean and clear water are much different than plastic pollution.

The Chesapeake Bay was a real mess for decades, up until fairly recently. The water is in much better shape. We have an oyster industry again. But, the plastic is everywhere.

It is sad. I'm in the auto biz but I try as hard as I can to have a small footprint. I recycle what I can. I pick up trash constantly as in everyday, some amount. Some days more than others. I have a small john boat and trolling motor so I can police our fairly large drainage canal behind our house. I can clean out a boat load and after the next rain there's another boat load to be removed. It's mostly plastic water bottles followed by pretty much anything else plastic. Rubber balls, frisbees, plastic bags, you name it.

When we go camping, same thing. I make a point of picking up everything along a hike, or intentionally go on a hike just to pick up trash.

Leave it better than it was when you came.